The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[NUFAN]

Gary Kirsten doesn't even get close for me. Up against Richards, Mitchell and Smith for starters, Taylor's also there and ahead of him.

What did Gary Kirsten fail to achieve for him to be ranked below Herbie Taylor in your opinion?

 

[Spooony]

Gary Kirsten doesn't even get close for me. Up against Richards, Mitchell and Smith for starters, Taylor's also there and ahead of him.

Barry Richards
Eddie Barlow
Peter Kirsten
Graeme Pollock
Jacques Kallis
Lee Irvine
Clive Rice
Mike Procter
Garth le Roux
Vintcent Van der Bijl

In a All time SA XI Graeme Smith do not belong as well. Neither Kirsten. But Peter does.

 

[kyear2]

We normally construct an All Time Test XI.

The teams that I constructed are partially mine, but also with imput from forum members. An example of this would be Barrington as I mentioned earlier, would not be my choice, but always got the impression he was a fav of some members. Would really like to get some concensus selections so that someone could do a sim based on the teams.

 

[JBMAC]

Barry Richards
Eddie Barlow
Peter Kirsten
Graeme Pollock
Jacques Kallis
Lee Irvine
Clive Rice
Mike Procter
Garth le Roux
Vintcent Van der Bijl

In a All time SA XI Graeme Smith do not belong as well. Neither Kirsten. But Peter does.

Nice to see big Garth in there WSC stopped a great career there

 

[Spooony]

Ok who's cheating?
All time XI | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Dan]

I don't see how a South African XI can not select Bruce Mitchell nor Aubrey Faulkner. Far and away the two best players they had prior to the Richards/Procter era.

Bruce Mitchell
Barry Richards
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Herbie Taylor
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Mike Procter *
John Waite +
Shaun Pollock
Allan Donald
(12th: AB de Villiers or Colin Bland)

Could argue for an extra bowler, but I reckon Donald/Procter/Pollock/Faulkner/Kallis/Mitchell can more than handle duties. ABdV and Bland sharing specialist fieldsman duties. Jock Cameron harsh to miss out for Waite.

 

[Flametree]

I don't see how a South African XI can not select Bruce Mitchell nor Aubrey Faulkner. Far and away the two best players they had prior to the Richards/Procter era.

Bruce Mitchell
Barry Richards
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Herbie Taylor
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Mike Procter *
John Waite +
Shaun Pollock
Allan Donald
(12th: AB de Villiers or Colin Bland)

Could argue for an extra bowler, but I reckon Donald/Procter/Pollock/Faulkner/Kallis/Mitchell can more than handle duties. ABdV and Bland sharing specialist fieldsman duties. Jock Cameron harsh to miss out for Waite.

I always assumed Lindsay would be the keeper in a SA all-time side, but it seems most folk prefer Waite or Cameron?

I like the above side, but I would take the extra bowler - Pollock at 10 seems a bit of a luxury. So Taylor out, the others up one place, and Tayfield at 10. Three top-class seam bowlers with one world class offie, Faulkner's wrist spin and Kallis's swing and bounce to back them up. It's the best balanced attack of any of these sides I think.

Excluding le Roux and van der Bijl from consideration is tough but I tend to agree we can only consider test players. But if Barry Richards hadn't had that one series, would we all consider making an exception for him?

 

[smash84]

I'll put Vinoo Mankad in place of Kapil Dev

Vinoo Mankad was more of a batting all rounder was he? What position did he usually bat in?

 

[Jager]

I always assumed Lindsay would be the keeper in a SA all-time side, but it seems most folk prefer Waite or Cameron?

I like the above side, but I would take the extra bowler - Pollock at 10 seems a bit of a luxury. So Taylor out, the others up one place, and Tayfield at 10. Three top-class seam bowlers with one world class offie, Faulkner's wrist spin and Kallis's swing and bounce to back them up. It's the best balanced attack of any of these sides I think.

Excluding le Roux and van der Bijl from consideration is tough but I tend to agree we can only consider test players. But if Barry Richards hadn't had that one series, would we all consider making an exception for him?

Without hesitation for Barry Richards. I rank him third of all time at the moment.

In regards to Lindsay, he's often favoured for his batting, but his keeping hasn't even close to Cameron/Waite from all accounts and he did only have one great series with the bat.

 

[kyear2]

Without hesitation for Barry Richards. I rank him third of all time at the moment.
In regards to Lindsay, he's often favoured for his batting, but his keeping hasn't even close to Cameron/Waite from all accounts and he did only have one great series with the bat.

Who do you rank second?

 

[Jager]

Who do you rank second?

Sobers by a whisker.

 

[NUFAN]

My turn.

Australia XI
1. Arthur Morris
2. Bob Simpson
3. Don Bradman
4. Greg Chappell
5. Allan Border
6. Keith Miller
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Alan Davidson
9. Shane Warne
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Glenn McGrath


West Indies XI
1. Gordon Greenidge
2. Conrad Hunte
3. George Headley
4. Viv Richards
5. Brian Lara
6. Garry Sobers
7. Jeffrey Dujon
8. Malcolm Marshall
9. Michael Holding
10. Joel Garner
11. Curtly Ambrose


South Africa XI
1. Graeme Smith
2. Barry Richards
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Dudley Nourse
6. Aubrey Faulkner
7. Denis Lindsay
8. Mike Procter
9. Dale Steyn
10. Allan Donald
11. Neil Adcock


England XI
1. Jack Hobbs
2. Len Hutton
3. Walter Hammond
4. Denis Compton
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Ian Botham
7. Allan Knott
8. Jim Laker
9. Fred Trueman
10. Frank Tyson
11. Sydney Barnes


Pakistan XI
1. Saeed Anwar
2. Hanif Mohammad
3. Younis Khan
4. Javed Miandad
5. Inzaman Ul Haq
6. Zaheer Abbas
7. Imran Khan
8. Wasim Bari
9. Wasim Akram
10. Abdul Qadir
11. Waqar Younis


India XI
1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Vijay Merchant
3. Rahul Dravid
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Mohammad Azharuddin
6. Vinoo Mankad
7. Kapil Dev
8. Syed Kirmani
9. Javagal Srinath
10. Erapalli Prasanna
11. Bhagwath Chandrasekhar


Sri Lanka XI
1. Sanath Jayasuriya
2. Marvan Atapattu
3. Kumar Sangakarra
4. Aravinda de Silva
5. Mahela Jayawardene
6. Thilan Samareewa
7. Prasanna Jayawardene
8. Chaminda Vaas
9. Rangana Herath
10. Rumesh Ratnayake
11. Muttiah Muralitharan


New Zealand XI
1. Glenn Turner
2. Stewie Dempster
3. Bert Sutcliffe
4. Martin Crowe
5. Martin Donnelly
6. John R Reid
7. Daniel Vettori
8. Richard Hadlee
9. Ian Smith
10. Shane Bond
11. Jack Cowie


Zimbabwe XI
1. Grant Flower
2. Kevin Arnott
3. Murray Goodwin
4. Dave Houghton
5. Andy Flower
6. Sean Ervine
7. Tatenda Taibu
8. Heath Streak
9. Paul Strang
10. Henry Olonga
11. Ray Price


Bangladesh XI
1. Tamin Iqbal
2. Shahriar Nafees
3. Habibul Bashar
4. Aminul Islam
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Mushfiqur Rahim
7. Khaled Mashud
8. Mohammad Rafique
9. Mashrafe Mortaza
10. Shahadat Hossain
11. Enamul Haque Jnr

 

[Mike5181]

My turn.

Sri Lanka XI
1. Sanath Jayasuriya
2. Marvan Atapattu
3. Kumar Sangakarra
4. Aravinda de Silva
5. Mahela Jayawardene
6. Thilan Samareewa
7. Prasanna Jayawardene
8. Chaminda Vaas
9. Rangana Herath
10. Rumesh Ratnayake
11. Muttiah Muralitharan

Malinga has to be close to Ratnayake, surely.

 

[NUFAN]

Malinga is so close. The reason that Malinga did not get picked is due to his lack of endurance. Overall Malinga's test career was a bit of a disappointment for mine, he's close to gaining selection due to a lack of options but I just felt Ratnayake would do a better job for the team.

In the SA XI, Adcock vs. Tayfield was another very difficult decision. I just thought the SA way was to bowl the quicks at every opportunity. Faulkner could bowl more if there was any spin.

 

[Jager]

Exciting batting in the England XI Nuf, also gun effort to do Zim and Bang sides.

 

[smash84]

My turn.

Australia XI
1. Arthur Morris
2. Bob Simpson
3. Don Bradman
4. Greg Chappell
5. Allan Border
6. Keith Miller
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Alan Davidson
9. Shane Warne
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Glenn McGrath


West Indies XI
1. Gordon Greenidge
2. Conrad Hunte
3. George Headley
4. Viv Richards
5. Brian Lara
6. Garry Sobers
7. Jeffrey Dujon
8. Malcolm Marshall
9. Michael Holding
10. Joel Garner
11. Curtly Ambrose


South Africa XI
1. Graeme Smith
2. Barry Richards
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Dudley Nourse
6. Aubrey Faulkner
7. Denis Lindsay
8. Mike Procter
9. Dale Steyn
10. Allan Donald
11. Neil Adcock


England XI
1. Jack Hobbs
2. Len Hutton
3. Walter Hammond
4. Denis Compton
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Ian Botham
7. Allan Knott
8. Jim Laker
9. Fred Trueman
10. Frank Tyson
11. Sydney Barnes


Pakistan XI
1. Saeed Anwar
2. Hanif Mohammad
3. Younis Khan
4. Javed Miandad
5. Inzaman Ul Haq
6. Zaheer Abbas
7. Imran Khan
8. Wasim Bari
9. Wasim Akram
10. Abdul Qadir
11. Waqar Younis


India XI
1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Vijay Merchant
3. Rahul Dravid
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Mohammad Azharuddin
6. Vinoo Mankad
7. Kapil Dev
8. Syed Kirmani
9. Javagal Srinath
10. Erapalli Prasanna
11. Bhagwath Chandrasekhar


Sri Lanka XI
1. Sanath Jayasuriya
2. Marvan Atapattu
3. Kumar Sangakarra
4. Aravinda de Silva
5. Mahela Jayawardene
6. Thilan Samareewa
7. Prasanna Jayawardene
8. Chaminda Vaas
9. Rangana Herath
10. Rumesh Ratnayake
11. Muttiah Muralitharan


New Zealand XI
1. Glenn Turner
2. Stewie Dempster
3. Bert Sutcliffe
4. Martin Crowe
5. Martin Donnelly
6. John R Reid
7. Daniel Vettori
8. Richard Hadlee
9. Ian Smith
10. Shane Bond
11. Jack Cowie


Zimbabwe XI
1. Grant Flower
2. Kevin Arnott
3. Murray Goodwin
4. Dave Houghton
5. Andy Flower
6. Sean Ervine
7. Tatenda Taibu
8. Heath Streak
9. Paul Strang
10. Henry Olonga
11. Ray Price


Bangladesh XI
1. Tamin Iqbal
2. Shahriar Nafees
3. Habibul Bashar
4. Aminul Islam
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Mushfiqur Rahim
7. Khaled Mashud
8. Mohammad Rafique
9. Mashrafe Mortaza
10. Shahadat Hossain
11. Enamul Haque Jnr

Some very good teams there NUFAN. Good effort

 

[NUFAN]

The hardest players to leave out were Ricky Ponting and Frank Worrell.

South Africa and India's keeping spots were difficult and Chris Cairns was very unlucky.

 

[kyear2]

All Great teams nufan, especially like your Pakistan team. The only trend that is evident is that you consistently went quick over spin for every close decision. Faulkner, and please correct me if I am wrong, was a batsman who could bowl spin a bit and was greatly aided by the matting pitch. Not sure if the W.I would get through 90 overs playing four quicks and to add to that Sobers was a better seamer than spinner. If you do go 4 quicks Dujon is the better keeper choice. Don't want to be accused of Davo hating, but to me Linwall was a bit better, but if one is looking for variety to make up for the loss of the second spinner, Davo is a good pick. Great England team, no romatism picks and Tyson was soooo good.

 

[NUFAN]

The West Indies would never need to get through 90 overs in a day unless they were enforcing the follow on.

I did go quicks over spin for West Indies, South Africa and I guess Australia, but for SL,NZ and Eng I went for the spinning option when some of the previous teams decided against it.

Kyear and Jager, can you explain how Herath didn't make your SL team?

 

[kyear2]

Honestly as I said previously not that big on S.L and N.Z cricket history.

Nufan post your W.I, U.K and Aus teams in the other thread as well please.