The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

So harsh on Miller, Sutcliffe, Hutton.

True Eds.

I've included Miller as a twelfth. I just think the Australian XI is stronger with the three quicks and one spinner, as well as six batsmen (Simmo and Chappell can bowl a few overs). I'm torn with Miller!

Sutcliffe and Hutton are competing for the same spot, as partner to Hobbs. I included Grace over both, primarily for the fact that he was considered the greatest for a long time a baton he passed on to Trumper/Hobbs, then Bradman.

Here's an interesting conversation point for stats nerds....

Should an ATG team's bowling attack have a bowling attack whose cumulative wickets per test adds up to 20+?

 

[Red]

And my WIs XI:


01. Gordon Greenidge
02. Desmond Haynes
03. Frank Worrell/ Rohan Kanhai
04. Brian Lara
05. Viv Richards
06. Garry Sobers
07. Clyde Walcott
08. Malcolm Marshall
09. Michael Holding
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Lance Gibbs

 

[JBMAC]

And my WIs XI:


01. Gordon Greenidge
02. Desmond Haynes
03. Frank Worrell/ Rohan Kanhai
04. Brian Lara
05. Viv Richards
06. Garry Sobers
07. Clyde Walcott
08. Malcolm Marshall
09. Michael Holding
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Lance Gibbs

WTF? No Headley

 

[kyear2]

Correct, the more I research, read and watch old clips, I am convinced that he along with Sobers are the best W.I batsmen and the best over all after Bradman. Viv at his best was their equal and faced the best bowlers, but his peak was the shortest, Lara was their equal as well, but was inconsistent and mecurial. All Four though were absolutely amazing though and among the top 10 batsmen of all time.

 

[kyear2]

Australia All Time XI

Bobby Simpson
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman
Greg Chappell
Alan Border
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Bill O’Reilly
Dennis Lillee
Glen Mcgrath

West Indies XI

Gordon Greenidge
Conrad Hunte
George Headley
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Garry Sobers
Clyde Walcott
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Michael Holding
Lance Gibbs

South Africa All Time XI

Barry Richards
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Shaun Pollock
Mike Procter
Jon Waite
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

England All Time XI

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Wally Hammond
Ken Barrington
Denis Compton
Ian Botham
Alan Knott
Harold Larwood
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Sydney Barnes

Pakistan All Time XI

Saeed Anwar
Hanif Mohammad
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Inzaman Ul-Haq
Mohammad Yousuf
Imran Khan
Wasim Bari
Wasim Akram
Abdul Qadir
Waqar Younis

India All Time XI

Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Erapalli Prasanna
Mohammad Nissar

Sri Lanka All Time XI

Marvan Atapattu
Sanath Jayasuriya
Kumar Sangakkara
Aravinda De Silva
Mahela Jayawardene
Arjuna Ranatunga
Prasanna Jayawardene
Chaminda Vaas
Rumesh Ratnayake
Ashantha de Mel
Muttiah Muralitharan

New Zealand All Time XI

Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelly
John Reid
Richard Hadlee
Daniel Vettori
Ian Smith
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

Best of The Rest XI

Herbert Sutcliffe
Vijay Merchant
Ricky Ponting
Everton Weekes
Neil Harvey
Frank Worrell
Les Ames
Ray Lindwall
Hedley Verity
Joel Garner
Dale Steyn

Lot of time and research using consensus views to assemble these teams. Let me know of proposed changes.

 

[NUFAN]

Really great teams kyear, on the whole I agree with many of your thoughts, I in particular love the Windies XI.

I don't really like the SL team, Sanga, keeping and batting at 3 is tough.

 

[Red]

WTF? No Headley

Not wacko, just an oversight~!


01. Gordon Greenidge
02. Desmond Haynes
03. George Headley
04. Brian Lara
05. Viv Richards
06. Garry Sobers
07. Clyde Walcott
08. Malcolm Marshall
09. Michael Holding
10. Curtly Ambrose
11. Lance Gibbs

 

[Red]

New Zealand All Time XI

Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelly
John F. Reid
Richard Hadlee
Chris Cairns/Dan Vettori
Ian Smith
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie


I think this side would surprise a few of the higher ranked sides. Hadlee, Bond and Cowie are an excellent pace trio.

Cairns/Vettori to battle over the last spot. Cairns would give a bit of x-factor to the batting. NZ haven't ever produced a GREAT spinner.

 

[Jager]

NZ did produce Grimmett - lucky we stole him!

 

[Jager]

Really great teams kyear, on the whole I agree with many of your thoughts, I in particular love the Windies XI.

I don't really like the SL team, Sanga, keeping and batting at 3 is tough.

Agreed, Sanga stays at 3 but Prassana to take the gloves IMO.

 

[kyear2]

Which bowler would you drop?

Edit: change made.

I propose that if/when we run a sim that these teams can be used as the base for selections with what ever changes are recomended.

 

[Jager]

Massive thanks to Monk for recommending that DVD. Jock Cameron's wicketkeeping skills are unbelievable from this footage... keeping to spin, he's throwing the ball back to the bowler and the batsman is still completing his shot!

 

[kyear2]

And he averaged over 30 with the bat. So vote gained then?

 

[Jager]

And he averaged over 30 with the bat. So vote gained then?

He'll be getting the 3+1 points in my voting system... we'll see about the rest though!

 

[L Trumper]

Australia All Time XI

Bobby Simpson
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman
Greg Chappell
Alan Border
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Bill O’Reilly
Dennis Lillee
Glen Mcgrath

West Indies XI

Gordon Greenidge
Conrad Hunte
George Headley
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Garry Sobers
Clyde Walcott
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Michael Holding
Lance Gibbs

South Africa All Time XI

Barry Richards
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Shaun Pollock
Mike Procter
Jon Waite
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

England All Time XI

Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton
Wally Hammond
Ken Barrington
Denis Compton
Ian Botham
Alan Knott
Harold Larwood
Jim Laker
Fred Trueman
Sydney Barnes

Pakistan All Time XI

Saeed Anwar
Hanif Mohammad
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Inzaman Ul-Haq
Mohammad Yousuf
Imran Khan
Wasim Bari
Wasim Akram
Abdul Qadir
Waqar Younis

India All Time XI

Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Anil Kumble
Erapalli Prasanna
Mohammad Nissar

Sri Lanka All Time XI

Marvan Atapattu
Sanath Jayasuriya
Kumar Sangakkara
Aravinda De Silva
Mahela Jayawardene
Arjuna Ranatunga
Prasanna Jayawardene
Chaminda Vaas
Rumesh Ratnayake
Ashantha de Mel
Muttiah Muralitharan

New Zealand All Time XI

Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Sutcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelly
John Reid
Richard Hadlee
Daniel Vettori
Ian Smith
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

Best of The Rest XI

Herbert Sutcliffe
Vijay Merchant
Ricky Ponting
Everton Weekes
Neil Harvey
Frank Worrell
Les Ames
Ray Lindwall
Hedley Verity
Joel Garner
Dale Steyn

Lot of time and research using consensus views to assemble these teams. Let me know of proposed changes.

Wow! Brilliant teams all around, Only disagreements I have are VVS and Trumper for Hazare and Morris. Astoundingly I am in agreement with everyone else. Great job for all the teams.
Also England (lower)middle order Compton/Botham/Knott is iffy to say the least.

 

[Eds]

West Indies XI is so tough. I'd probably go for something like this.

Greenidge
Worrell
Headley
Lara
Richards
Sobers
Walcott
Marshall
Ambrose
Holding
Garner

 

[kyear2]

Worrell is temping, and he did open, but it sorta feels like cheating to me.

 

[kyear2]

Wow! Brilliant teams all around, Only disagreements I have are VVS and Trumper for Hazare and Morris. Astoundingly I am in agreement with everyone else. Great job for all the teams.
Also England (lower)middle order Compton/Botham/Knott is iffy to say the least.

Statistically speaking Trumper was much better in the middle order than opening and Morris was a key opener for the invincibles and offers that rh/lh combination at the top.
Hazare was a great batsman in his own right and a handy bowler, the only edge that I can see for VVS is in the slip cordon.

 

[Jager]

Just watched an interview with Bradman who said with absolute certainty that Jack Gregory was as fast as the bowlers of today. Great action too, the way he skips to the left of the crease in his delivery stride and slings the ball down.

 

[Flametree]

Worrell is temping, and he did open, but it sorta feels like cheating to me.

Whenever I think about an all-time Windies team I cheat twice (three times if playing Walcott as a keeper counts...) Pick a top-7 of Headley, Lara, Richards, Sobers, Walcott, Weekes, Worrell (in alpha order), then let them draw straws to see who opens...