Where do we go now?

[grecian]

haha.

FFS, what's the point.

 

[theegyptian]

For the record, went through and looked at all games between non-minnows, and looked at all the run-rates for innings where the batsmen were likely still going hell to leather all the way through.

Matches where a team won with more than two overs to spare I discounted.

The average run rate throughout the tournament so far in the last 5 overs has been 8.96. Dernbach's economy rate in this same time of the game (to be fair, each time he's bowled in this period, he's bowled overs 18 and 20, which may be attacked a bit more than 16 or 17, but still) is 12.33.

For the record, when Bresnan came in and bowled those same two overs, he went for 21 from his two.

I mean this doesn't surprise me. I always said he was poor. But you compare him to the some of the other bowlers who bowled at the end of innings.I never compared Dernbach with Malinga, Ajmal, Gul, Kallis. These are obviously experienced quality performers. Dernbach is no-where near these guys. As you say some of these statistics are dependent on the innings situation and generally englands opposition always had a few wicket left in hand at the end of the innings.

 

[marc71178]

zzz not as relevant as international stats. All 3 came in to first class cricket at a very young age but dernbach has bowled at the death nearly his whole career. He didn't really ever have a bedding in period like Woakes or Bresnan who would have been third or fourth bowlers. Also he plays at the high scoring Oval as compared to Edgbaston or Headingly. He didn't play for England U-19, his improvement has come later in the career.

You also conveniently leave out strike rate and average. you can make statistics look what you like. some need context.

You can make whatever excuses you like, but he's being selected as a specialist death bowler, but he's **** at that task.

Oh, and since you asked:

S/R: Dernbach 20.3 (21.3 in domestic), Woakes 19.9 (19.4 in domestic), Bresnan 22.3 (20.5 in domestic)
Average: Dernbach 28.27 (30.68 in domestic), Woakes 26.77 (25.87 in domestic), Bresnan 27.31 (24.96 in domestic)

So in all 3 he's worse and he can't bat for toffee.

 

[ankitj]

Hilarious

Those from outside of India / Pakistan - sorry guys, you will probably not understand the language or the context.

 

[Turbinator]

 

[benchmark00]

As I've been saying for years - Dernbach slings pies for a living.

 

[Daemon]

Bopara, Harmison seemed to have mental brakedowns when out of form. Mentally resillient players like Cook or Broad battled through and broke out the other end better players.

The only reason you think Bopara had mental breakdowns is because he couldn't break out of his poor form. He could be a really resilient person for all we know, but just a **** cricketer. Same goes for Cook and Broad.

Sorry, but it always irks me when people analyse a player's character based simply on his cricket related performances.

 

[Jono]

As I've been saying for years - Dernbach slings pies for a living.

Third time you've talked about yourself or something you said in the past in a post in less than 24 hours of being back at CW.

You suck.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Anyway I think it's a great shame the T20 World Cup is in the sub-continent 3 times in a row. In fact the one before was in the West Indies and the conditions weren't too dissimilar there either.

This World Cup has seen mostly empty stadia with increasingly turgid pitches and games often affected by dew.

Bit of a shame really.

 

[NUFAN]

Warner - Okay but would love to see him produce his domestic T20 form.

Watson - Gun.

Mussey - Old, gun but not forever

White - Simple. solid domestically, not able to handle international pressure

Bailey - Love the bloke. What a brilliant semi final performance, knew he was capable of it.

Dussey - Nah, should never play for Australia again.

Wade - Really not a fan, sloppy behind the stumps and not the smartest batsman in world cricket at all. I'm a Paine fan as he is smarter than Wade.

Cummins - Well, he's not bad, but do we really want him playing 4 over Cricket?

Starc - Limited Overs gun, very good tournament.

Hogg - 40 year old virgin, did okay, but where were the wickets.

Doherty - SA were terrible against him, which cost Australia because he is simple and terrible.

 

[Jono]

Bailey - Love the bloke. What a brilliant semi final performance, knew he was capable of it.

That's one way of looking at it. The other is he was -40 before he even started batting.

 

[NUFAN]

That's one way of looking at it. The other is he was -40 before he even started batting.

Why minus 40?

His mistake was that he figured Doherty could bowl to the plan like he had done for Tassie on numerous occasions. He couldn't as Doherty unfortunately isn't cut out for playing International Cricket.

Did you not enjoy Bailey's batsmanship?

 

[Jono]

Yeah I did. I also enjoyed Umar Gul's. I daresay his innings meant more, yet I wouldn't have him come play as a specialist batsman in my T20 team.

Bailey looks like a nice guy though so I don't enjoy having a crack at him.

When Doherty came on to bowl that last over I received 3 text messages from different people saying "WI 200+ now". It was an odd decision to say the least.

 

[NUFAN]

There were 25 from the last over, you'd expect 12 or so, especially with the 2 at the crease. Yes above 200 made it extremely difficult, but I don't see where the -40 came from.

All good though. I rate Bailey and don't rate Doherty.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Anyway I think it's a great shame the T20 World Cup is in the sub-continent 3 times in a row. In fact the one before was in the West Indies and the conditions weren't too dissimilar there either.

This World Cup has seen mostly empty stadia with increasingly turgid pitches and games often affected by dew.

Bit of a shame really.

Yeah, might as well not send the English squad, save some GBP there.

Cannot offer a better reply to a guy who has absolutely no clue about how subcontinental wickets haven't the same across the same country, let alone 3 nations.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Yeah, might as well not send the English squad, save some GBP there.

Cannot offer a better reply to a guy who has absolutely no clue about how subcontinental wickets haven't the same across the same country, let alone 3 nations. because I'm incapable of reading properly or addressing the points made.

There you go.

People who post just to illustrate that they can't be bothered are fair game as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Prince EWS]

With Pietersen back in the fold, I think the England side basically picks itself from this point as long as he stays there (big if though I suppose ).

1. Hales
2. Pietersen
3. Wright
4. Morgan
5. Buttler
6. Prior
7. Bresnan
8. Swann
9. Broad
10. Finn
11. Briggs

There's really something to work with there IMHO. I should make it clear that I'm not advocating Prior to play ODIs, but he seems to have improved quite a bit as a limited overs player overall in the last couple of years, and he's always actually been a pretty good T20 batsman. Above all else he's quite a good gloveman these days, and you shouldn't require your #6 to do much in T20 other than avoiding wasting deliveries anyway. Whoever the keeper is though he shouldn't bat in the top four and he should be a genuine gloveman. There's no reason to try and make a lesser batsman open the batting and keep wicket when you can have a top four of Hales-Pietersen-Wright-Morgan; that's where the runs will come from.

It's harsh on Samit as he played a really good knock last start but he's not as good as any of the five batsmen in the side and I don't think he's good enough to play as a frontline bowler - I'm a big, big advocate of having five genuine bowlers in any T20 side, and England are in a really good position to employ that tactic with three of their best bowlers being able to bat to a decent standard. It's good news for England that they're still in a position to make a harsh call on a player who performed after a real tournament failure though, and he'd keep his place in the squad. I really do think Pietersen and Prior could make a huge difference to that side especially when you consider they're basically replacing Kieswetter and Bopara.

The goal between now and the next World T20 should just be finding some depth to add to that. There is absolutely no bowling depth beyond that lot at the moment and the batting depth just consists of Patel.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Bres the big worry in that line up, for my quid.

His bowling has really regressed since he had his elbow problems. I'm hoping maybe Lewis Gregory can soon step up. Bowls wicket-to-wicket at 85mph+ and does swing it too. Action reminds me of a young Jonah.

Apparently Brian Rose rates his batting highly enough to see him as a future #4 in FC but must admit I've never seen enough to make any judgements myself.

 

[Prince EWS]

Bres the big worry in that line up, for my quid.

His bowling has really regressed since he had his elbow problems. I'm hoping maybe Lewis Gregory can soon step up. Bowls wicket-to-wicket at 85mph+ and does swing it too. Action reminds me of a young Jonah.

Apparently Brian Rose rates his batting highly enough to see him as a future #4 in FC but must admit I've never seen enough to make any judgements myself.

Yeah fair call on Bresnan I guess. I had no hesitation in slotting him in because I've always been a fan of him and I also think he's the perfect sort of player to bat seven in T20 cricket going forward (genuine frontline bowler who can bat, doesn't waste deliveries in doing so). However, if he can't actually get his bowling back up to the standard it was at before his injury then he becomes exactly the sort of bits-and-pieces player I think should be avoided.

I'm a really big fan of Chris Woakes, but my gut instinct is that his bowling style would be really unsuited to the format and his record backs that up emphatically; he travels at over 8rpo. He's a really frustrating case from and England point of view even if you ignore his injury problems; his strongest format is the one England could least use a player of his type and quality. If he was even remotely as good a bowler in either limited overs format as he is in First Class cricket he'd be playing for England regularly.

EDIT: And yeah, Gregory is a good example of someone who should be given a game. I like that suggestion more the more I think about it, even though I always tease Marcuss about his batting failures.

 

[Prince EWS]

I've moved some of the general posts about how seriously T20 should be to taken to here so it doesn't overtake this thread. I'll probably move both this thread and that new one over to CC when this forum gets archived.