Where do we go now?

[Daemon]

i kinda made the joke first. beat it ****.

 

[uvelocity]

I thought of it first

 

[Jono]

where do we go now

i kinda made the joke first. beat it ****.

This is better

 

[smash84]

No Mercy look a bit gay in the photo

 

[marc71178]

I still feel Dernbach should be persevered with. He's erratic but talented and is very different to anything else we have in England.

Indeed, the rest of the bowlers went about 7 an over through the tournament whilst he was only just under 10. Bloke is ****e.

 

[theegyptian]

Indeed, the rest of the bowlers went about 7 an over through the tournament whilst he was only just under 10. Bloke is ****e.

zzz, i know im going against the general notion and he has been erratic... but compared to a load of bowlers england bring through he has a much higher potential peak.

Why?

He can bowl easily high eighties with a good action, gets conventional and reverse swing, and has a wealth of variations. He also has completely the right attitude. Always wanting to bowl regardless of game situation and with a passion for the game.

No doubt he was expensive but he also bowled at the start during powerplays and the last 2(out of 3) overs of the innings. More than anybody he had the toughest of the jobs during the WC

Look at the alternatives.

Chris Woakes - early 80's with no variation. easily hittable. but decent batsman although not outright hitter

James Anderson - Worse career international T20 record than Dernbach. Bowls mid 80's length balls. goes to pieces when hit.

Tim Bresnan- Another worse record than Dernbach. Bowls too many balls sliding down leg at medium pace.

So who would you replace Dernbach with?

 

[Daemon]

zzz, i know im going against the general notion and he has been erratic... but compared to a load of bowlers england bring through he has a much higher potential peak.

Why?

He can bowl easily high eighties with a good action, gets conventional and reverse swing, and has a wealth of variations. He also has completely the right attitude. Always wanting to bowl regardless of game situation and with a passion for the game.

you know this how?

 

[Scaly piscine]

zzz, i know im going against the general notion and he has been erratic... but compared to a load of bowlers england bring through he has a much higher potential peak.

Why?

He can bowl easily high eighties with a good action, gets conventional and reverse swing, and has a wealth of variations. He also has completely the right attitude. Always wanting to bowl regardless of game situation and with a passion for the game.

No doubt he was expensive but he also bowled at the start during powerplays and the last 2(out of 3) overs of the innings. More than anybody he had the toughest of the jobs during the WC

Look at the alternatives.

Chris Woakes - early 80's with no variation. easily hittable. but decent batsman although not outright hitter

James Anderson - Worse career international T20 record than Dernbach. Bowls mid 80's length balls. goes to pieces when hit.

Tim Bresnan- Another worse record than Dernbach. Bowls too many balls sliding down leg at medium pace.

So who would you replace Dernbach with?

You seem to be missing the point. Dernbach is ****. The only reason he has a better record is because he had a honeymoon period before everyone in international cricket worked out his slower balls. If he actually bowled properly he could be an asset, but he doesn't. He bowled one very good over against Sri Lanka and then reverted to his usual shower, spraying the ball everywhere at 70mph. Doesn't matter if he has potential or not, he's **** and so shouldn't be anywhere near the national side.

 

[theegyptian]

you know this how?

watching him play, reading stuff about him in interviews by coaches . You think he'd be bowling at the death if he didn't want to earlier in his career - generally in english cricket it's left to the overseas player or the senior player.

 

[L Trumper]

watching him play, reading stuff about him in interviews by coaches . You think he'd be bowling at the death if he didn't want to earlier in his career - generally in english cricket it's left to the overseas player or the senior player.

This idea that only some players really have a passion others not as much is a narrative bull**** perpetuated by media. ****s are intl cricketers, all of them are passionate about the game otherwise they wouldn't be there.

 

[marc71178]

watching him play, reading stuff about him in interviews by coaches . You think he'd be bowling at the death if he didn't want to earlier in his career - generally in english cricket it's left to the overseas player or the senior player.

Well doesn't he come with this tag of "specialist death bowler"? Because if that's his speciality and he's pure unadulterated ****e at it, it means he's not good enough to be in the team.

 

[theegyptian]

Well doesn't he come with this tag of "specialist death bowler"? Because if that's his speciality and he's pure unadulterated ****e at it, it means he's not good enough to be in the team.

it;s all well and good as always saying he's **** and not good enough but again you haven't offered a replacement.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Interested to see what Dernbach's RR in the last five overs is compared to tournament average.

 

[marc71178]

If we're playing 3 seamers then Bresnan, Broad, Finn is a far better combination - the only game England won against non-minnows, and look who wasn't playing?

Look into his T20I career with any detail and it's extremely noticeable that there's a strong correlation between him getting good figures and the opposition being into the lower order at the death. In fact I'd say he's only once performed when that hasn't been the situation.

 

[grecian]

it;s all well and good as always saying he's **** and not good enough but again you haven't offered a replacement.

TBF, we don't scout County cricket for bowlers. If Dernbach is kept on being picked then other's aren't going to get a chance. It maybe someone like Liddle, who is a specialist and crap at first class. Topley, Ashraf, Roland-Jones, Saxleby or Pyrah all had decent seasons last year in t20.

May all be rubbish, but we know Jade is, so won't be costing us.

 

[theegyptian]

This idea that only some players really have a passion others not as much is a narrative bull**** perpetuated by media. ****s are intl cricketers, all of them are passionate about the game otherwise they wouldn't be there.

compare broad or dernbach to bopara or harmison. Bopara or Harmison looked liked they rather be elsewhere most of the time when playing and when the team was doing badly they're always passive and not wanting to get involved in the action.

Teams need positive, aggresive, combative personalities. Anybody can prosper when they're in form. The real test of players is when they're not. Bopara, Harmison seemed to have mental brakedowns when out of form. Mentally resillient players like Cook or Broad battled through and broke out the other end better players.

Yes it's a judgement i've made and it may be wrong but I think Dernbach has the correct personality traits to prosper. He also has the basic physical characteristics. It's not like he's 5'9'' and bowling 80mph with a few decent slower balls but tries hard.

Yes he's not the finished article and he does stupid stuff but you compare him to Bresnan or Woakes. There's no chance these guys are going to be world class international ODI/T20 bowlers. Their potential career peaks are sufficiently less than that of Dernbach and even at the moment they are worse bowlers than Dernbach

 

[theegyptian]

TBF, we don't scout County cricket for bowlers. If Dernbach is kept on being picked then other's aren't going to get a chance. It maybe someone like Liddle, who is a specialist and crap at first class. Topley, Ashraf, Roland-Jones, Saxleby or Pyrah all had decent seasons last year in t20.

May all be rubbish, but we know Jade is, so won't be costing us.

haha.

 

[vic_orthdox]

For the record, went through and looked at all games between non-minnows, and looked at all the run-rates for innings where the batsmen were likely still going hell to leather all the way through.

Matches where a team won with more than two overs to spare I discounted.

The average run rate throughout the tournament so far in the last 5 overs has been 8.96. Dernbach's economy rate in this same time of the game (to be fair, each time he's bowled in this period, he's bowled overs 18 and 20, which may be attacked a bit more than 16 or 17, but still) is 12.33.

For the record, when Bresnan came in and bowled those same two overs, he went for 21 from his two.

 

[marc71178]

Yes he's not the finished article and he does stupid stuff but you compare him to Bresnan or Woakes. There's no chance these guys are going to be world class international ODI/T20 bowlers. Their potential career peaks are sufficiently less than that of Dernbach and even at the moment they are worse bowlers than Dernbach

Worse bowlers who have better career records, interesting.

T20: Dernbach E/R 8.34 (8.66 in domestic only), Woakes E/R 8.08 (7.99 in domestic), Bresnan E/R 7.36 (7.32 in domestic)

List A: Dernbach E/R 6.03 (6.08 in domestic), Woakes E/R 5.39 (5.40 in domestic), Bresnan E/R 5.13 (5.00 in domestic)

In addition, 2 of the 3 can bat...

 

[theegyptian]

zzz not as relevant as international stats. All 3 came in to first class cricket at a very young age but dernbach has bowled at the death nearly his whole career. He didn't really ever have a bedding in period like Woakes or Bresnan who would have been third or fourth bowlers. Also he plays at the high scoring Oval as compared to Edgbaston or Headingly. He didn't play for England U-19, his improvement has come later in the career.

You also conveniently leave out strike rate and average. you can make statistics look what you like. some need context.