It's Tough Being Me - The Kevin Pietersen Story

[Jono]

Cook is better than KP now. Surely that's not controversial?

You can argue impact player or x-factor and all that, but surely Ali Cook is England's best test batsman and has been for the last 12-24 months?

 

[sledger]

It's been briefly touched on, but what are we feeling about the role of the Saffers in Textgate?

The leak of the supposedly derogatory nature of the messages can only have come from one side (unless KP is of seriously abnormally low intelligence) so one can only suppose what their motives were for making them public were. It looks like, at best, mischief making and at worst chucking a hand grenade into the opposition changing room and sitting back to admire the carnage.

Tbf I don't think they can be accused of doing anything wrong, irrespective of what their intentions were.

 

[Spark]

Cook is better than KP now. Surely that's not controversial?

You can argue impact player or x-factor and all that, but surely Ali Cook is England's best test batsman and has been for the last 12-24 months?

He's had an OK last 12 months IMO. Rocks and diamonds.

 

[Jono]

Green ranger has spoken a lot of sense in this thread.

 

[Jono]

He's had an OK last 12 months IMO. Rocks and diamonds.

Diamonds average over 50 I would have thought.

Edit: Obviously neither does Cook, but my point is KP is being talked up better than he actually is.

 

[sledger]

Green ranger has spoken a lot of sense in this thread.

It has been known to happen from time to time. Must be the alignment of the moon, or something.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Also, have no issue with South Africa making those texts public. Good on them.

Tbf I don't think they can be accused of doing anything wrong, irrespective of what their intentions were.

You don't think it's all a bit "telling tales to teacher"?

 

[Ruckus]

It's not about KPs average though (even though it's very good as is). It's about how he can change a game single handedly in a way the others can't. It's especially important for England, where a lot of their line-up are basically accumulators. I think his presence in the side is absolutely crucial for the balance of it.

 

[sledger]

You don't think it's all a bit "telling tales to teacher"?

Possibly. But at the very worst I think this can be described as ungentlemanly, and obviously there's no crime in that. If they've basically decided to just rat him out and try and stir up a hornet's nest in the England camp then I suppose you can say it's not exactly a sporting or honourable thing to do. But if KP's been stupid enough to give them all the ammo they need to disrupt the England camp ahead of a crucial test in which they'll be seeking to exploit every advantage they can, you could argue they'd have been foolish not to.

Conversely, on the other hand. If, as Grecian said, they were genuinely worried about being hauled up on a corruption charge then I don't think you can really blame them for fessing up.

 

[four_or_six]

England's Pietersen dilemma : Piers Morgan stokes Kevin Pietersen controversy | Cricket News | England v South Africa | ESPN Cricinfo

There is absolutely no way that these people who think they are helping KP are actually helping KP.

 

[Jager]

It's not about KPs average though (even though it's very good as is). It's about how he can change a game single handedly in a way the others can't. It's especially important for England, where a lot of their line-up are basically accumulators. I think his presence in the side is absolutely crucial for the balance of it.

This

 

[Spikey]

12 months ago, Cook. Now? Well it helps that KP has played two sorta trademark innings in the last few months. They're probably on an equal level, but KP's history gives him the edge

 

[sledger]

It's not about KPs average though (even though it's very good as is). It's about how he can change a game single handedly in a way the others can't. It's especially important for England, where a lot of their line-up are basically accumulators. I think his presence in the side is absolutely crucial for the balance of it.

What you say about his ability is absolutely true, I couldn't agree more, but for me it's not the point. He's clearly the most dynamic and game changing batsman available to England. If we measure the strength of the team as a whole in terms of summing up the abilities of all the individual players then it's unquestionably going to be weaker for his absence.

However, to do that is to assess the matter on paper, and cricket is obviously not played on paper. For mine, it's possibly to argue that the balance of side depends on his absence. How a team performs is to some extent at least dependent on how all the constituent parts (i.e. the players) link up with each other and interact. It is a team game. As Jono said earlier on in the thread, it isn't KP vs South Africa. If all the players in the team are diametrically opposed to each other and pulling in opposite directions what hope is there of it performing to the best of its ability? Including a player who's basically alienated himself from the rest of the squad, routinely behaved poorly and relentlessly pursued his own agenda at the expense of everyone else doesn't sound like a formula for finding the optimal balance of a side to me.

 

[sledger]

England's Pietersen dilemma : Piers Morgan stokes Kevin Pietersen controversy | Cricket News | England v South Africa | ESPN Cricinfo

There is absolutely no way that these people who think they are helping KP are actually helping KP.

It's a dire state of affairs when Piers Morgan becomes involved in anything, the man is as odious as they come.

This is fast becoming a media circus, it's not going to do anyone any good, least of all KP. It's all pretty pathetic quite frankly.

 

[grecian]

It's not about KPs average though (even though it's very good as is). It's about how he can change a game single handedly in a way the others can't. It's especially important for England, where a lot of their line-up are basically accumulators. I think his presence in the side is absolutely crucial for the balance of it.

Well, I was talking bowlers, you don't think they can change the game in a session, anyway if Cook or Trott scores a double, I guess that'd be a good thing too.

Anyway the Trego has spoken, definitive surely?

 

[Ruckus]

yeah I agree Sledger, I was only taking about him on a 'skill' based level. If there are indeed issues with him in the team not related to his actual ability, and that is in same way affecting overall team performance, then yeah it's not on. You would hope though, that as a group of professional athletes, they could overcome those things with relatively little fuss. But it's hard to know just how complicated the problems are without actually being in the squad.

 

[NickDB]

It's been briefly touched on, but what are we feeling about the role of the Saffers in Textgate?

The leak of the supposedly derogatory nature of the messages can only have come from one side (unless KP is of seriously abnormally low intelligence) so one can only suppose what their motives for making them public were. It looks like, at best, mischief making and at worst chucking a hand grenade into the opposition changing room and sitting back to admire the carnage.

With one of KPs major complaints being leaks coming from the ECB, not sure you can definitely say that the story about the texts comes from the SA side of things.

Unless I'm missing some fact somewhere that the Saffers definitely released it. For all we know the SA Management could of gone to the ECB, ICC and match officials and informed them that KP texted them. With our past history of match fixing I don't blame them for doing that either.

 

[sledger]

yeah I agree Sledger, I was only taking about him on a 'skill' based level. If there are indeed issues with him in the team not related to his actual ability, and that is in same way affecting overall team performance, then yeah it's not on. You would hope though, that as a group of professional athletes, they could overcome those things with relatively little fuss. But it's hard to know just how complicated the problems are without actually being in the squad.

Yeah, I think this is the crux of the matter tbh. Without being there, we really don't know the full extent of what has gone on and how it has affected the atmosphere and so on.

One suspects, as has been suggested already, that this recent incident is just the straw that broke the camels back though. Like you say, if it was just a matter of him saying some stupid or unsavoury things about team mates they could have been professional and got on with it.

By the sounds of things though his general attitude has been that he's better or above other members of the side, and that he's the be all and end all of what's going on. If that's the case then it's no surprise that others have become sick of it. It wouldn't take long for cracks to start appearing in any side if a few individuals starting strutting around like they were the centre of the universe, and when that starts to happen (if this is what has happened, I mean) then it's time to bring the hammer down on whatever's causing it.

 

[sledger]

Also, it's notable how none of the England players etc... have come out in defence of KP. There's been nobody denying any of the accusations aimed at Pietersen about him being a disruptive influence etc... Nobody in the know has come out and said anything remotely favourable about KP's role in all of this, only ***** like Piers Morgan.

I suspect the ECB may have warned the rest of the squad against going out and making their own press releases and so on, so that may explain it. But still, this lack of comment is surely fairly indicative of something.

 

[Jono]

Yeah surely if some of the players felt KP was extremely hard done by they would, at the very least, leak something.