**Official** South Africa in England 2012

[Jacknife]

Off the top of my head Trott seems to be guilty of this the past year, gets out playing really lazy shots, which is strange for a man renowned for great concentration

 

[flibbertyjibber]

So even if KP retires the chances of Bopara going on the tour to India have severely diminished one would imagine.

 

[Spark]

He's played some lazy ones, yes, but he hasn't got bowled between his legs off a defensive shot. Nor did he play that unspeakably dire excuse for a cut in the 3rd Test vs. Pakistan which sort of looped feebly to point from the longest of long hops. Bell's dismissal this Test was pretty appalling too.

Although Trott's dismissal in the 1st dig, 1st Test vs SL was pretty funny too.

 

[vic_orthdox]

The way Pietersen's been batting, if he makes runs it's only going to be in "stunning" fashion. He's always been like that a fair bit, but I think since his mini-slump (where I think he felt some pressure to bat more judiciously at times) and injuries, it's increased.

He feels that he bats best when dominating, and accepts that he'll get criticism when he gets out looking stupid, but also accepts that it'll happen for him to play at his best. More than ever, he's embracing "the ego", as Warney calls him.

 

[Jacknife]

If we take KP's word for it then he's every right to be pissed off. Stuff like he might want to miss Tests vs New Zealand shouldn't be out in the public domain.

George Dobell just said on switch hit that he doesn't want to say too much about the leaks because of his position as a journo but he's had things leaked to him and he said he has a point.

 

[amanuensis]

If we take KP's word for it then he's every right to be pissed off. Stuff like he might want to miss Tests vs New Zealand shouldn't be out in the public domain.

Why not? Because it might just expose him as a mercenary ****?

 

[Furball]

The way Pietersen's been batting, if he makes runs it's only going to be in "stunning" fashion. He's always been like that a fair bit, but I think since his mini-slump (where I think he felt some pressure to bat more judiciously at times) and injuries, it's increased.

He feels that he bats best when dominating, and accepts that he'll get criticism when he gets out looking stupid, but also accepts that it'll happen for him to play at his best. More than ever, he's embracing "the ego", as Warney calls him.

IMO that is when Pietersen bats best. I don't think he's as good a batsman when he's a bit circumspect and tries to be responsible.

When your stroke-making technique is much better than your defensive technique then IMO it makes more sense to hit out anyway. It looks worse, but I'd far rather Pietersen was dismissed trying to hit out rather than being bowled/lbw/nicking off to the cordon playing a defensive shot.

 

[Spark]

Why not? Because it might just expose him as a mercenary ****?

Don't avoid the filter, please.

 

[grecian]

George Dobell just said on switch hit that he doesn't want to say too much about the leaks because of his position as a journo but he's had things leaked to him and he said he has a point.

So?????

It's not really that big a deal is it? It's also rather masking the fact he's trying to re-ignite the argument now. This leak is a big betrayal, KP saying there's a leak in the dressing room is too. There's unrest clearly because people don't like him manoevering himself as if he's in a privileged position, and I don't blame them. Other England players have turned down IPL.

Really makes me think that the England team would prefer to be without him, and on the performances of the first two tests, by everyone else, it seems they're not enjoying the fuss.

I'm just bored of it, let him go.

 

[Jacknife]

Makes me laugh when I hear comments like that because it's not as if he hasn't put everything he's got into England these last 7 years and done wonders for the side. Dislike the guy all you want but it's unfair to doubt what's he's done for England or his motivations. Why's he a mercenary any more than all the other foreign born players over the years.

 

[Spark]

So?????

It's not really that big a deal is it? It's also rather masking the fact he's trying to re-ignite the argument now. This leak is a big betrayal, KP saying there's a leak in the dressing room is too. There's unrest clearly because people don't like him manoevering himself as if he's in a privileged position, and I don't blame them. Other England players have turned down IPL.

Really makes me think that the England team would prefer to be without him, and on the performances of the first two tests, by everyone else, it seems they're not enjoying the fuss.

I'm just bored of it, let him go.

Nah that's bull. You want to be a decent team? You're going to have different personalities. The top echelon of sportsmen often are - think your Shane Warnes etc. Being a good team, being a good leader, means managing them. Discarding them just because you couldn't be bothered working it out is consigning yourself to consistent mediocrity.

Don't get me wrong, team unity is important and all (just ask Misbah), but it looks to me as if certain people in the England setup have been actively trying to get KP axed for no reason other than he's KP, rather than anything he himself has actually done wrong. In which case, **** them.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Why would you want to play with someone who isn't prepared to make all the sacrifices to be successful that you, and the rest of the team, are prepared to make?

 

[grecian]

Nah that's bull. You want to be a decent team? You're going to have different personalities. The top echelon of sportsmen often are - think your Shane Warnes etc. Being a good team, being a good leader, means managing them. Discarding them just because you couldn't be bothered working it out is consigning yourself to consistent mediocrity.

nah, that's even more bull. Oz started making their climb to greatness from mediocrity, because they ditched a few "characters", because they didn't fit in with the team ethos. Matthews, Ritchie, Jones.

Another thing about team management is to cut out an influence if it comes to malign.

 

[amanuensis]

Nah that's bull. You want to be a decent team? You're going to have different personalities. The top echelon of sportsmen often are - think your Shane Warnes etc. Being a good team, being a good leader, means managing them. Discarding them just because you couldn't be bothered working it out is consigning yourself to consistent mediocrity.

It's hard to make a comparison due to the advent of the IPL, but Warne always struck me as having absolute commitment to the test team. Then again I'm not Australian, so will defer to the opinion of others.

 

[grecian]

Nah that's bull. You want to be a decent team? You're going to have different personalities. The top echelon of sportsmen often are - think your Shane Warnes etc. Being a good team, being a good leader, means managing them. Discarding them just because you couldn't be bothered working it out is consigning yourself to consistent mediocrity.

Don't get me wrong, team unity is important and all (just ask Misbah), but it looks to me as if certain people in the England setup have been actively trying to get KP axed for no reason other than he's KP, rather than anything he himself has actually done wrong. In which case, **** them.

Apart from trying to pick and choose his matches, Vic Orthodox, got it spot on.

 

[Jacknife]

So?????

It's not really that big a deal is it? It's also rather masking the fact he's trying to re-ignite the argument now. This leak is a big betrayal, KP saying there's a leak in the dressing room is too. There's unrest clearly because people don't like him manoevering himself as if he's in a privileged position, and I don't blame them. Other England players have turned down IPL.

Really makes me think that the England team would prefer to be without him, and on the performances of the first two tests, by everyone else, it seems they're not enjoying the fuss.

I'm just bored of it, let him go.

In you're opinion it isn't, obviously other people think different. I just replied to GF what they were talking about on switch hit. They were also talking about the the dressing room comment he made and they thought it was unclear if he was talking about teammates or the guys in the back ground.

Swann, Jimmy, Ian Bell, Matt Prior all put their name into the auction and didn't get picked up, Broad got a contract but got injured before hand.

 

[Spark]

nah, that's even more bull. Oz started making their climb to greatness from mediocrity, because they ditched a few "characters", because they didn't fit in with the team ethos. Matthews, Ritchie, Jones.

Another thing about team management is to cut out an influence if it comes to malign.

But how do you ditch them? You don't ditch them by leaking closed-door discussions to the media and doing the equivalent of backgrounding/briefing. It's dire in politics and it's dire here.

In the end, KP's presser probably makes his position untenable. But I can't believe that the ECB have gone about this the right way, when surely it is imperative on them at least to do so.

 

[grecian]

In you're opinion it isn't, obviously other people think different. I just replied to GF what they were talking about on switch hit. They were also talking about the the dressing room comment he made and they thought it was unclear if he was talking about teammates or the guys in the back ground.

Swann, Jimmy, Ian Bell, Matt Prior all put their name into the auction and didn't get picked up, Broad got a contract but got injured before hand.

All of them did it because it wouldn't interfere with their Test career. Others have turned it down, did I say everyone did, this is getting weird TBH. I understand people like watching him play, but he, by his own volition, is trying to pick and choose when he can play, when he has a contract. The problem stems from him.

 

[grecian]

But how do you ditch them? You don't ditch them by leaking closed-door discussions to the media and doing the equivalent of backgrounding/briefing. It's dire in politics and it's dire here.

In the end, KP's presser probably makes his position untenable. But I can't believe that the ECB have gone about this the right way, when surely it is imperative on them at least to do so.

Well we have no idea the ECB leaked it, do you think KP is the most discreet person. In fact a fairly iffy suggestion.

 

[Spark]

Again, we only have KP's word. But the reaction to it from the media doesn't exactly seem to be one of dismissal, and given that they are the only ones who would really know...