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New Zealand doom and gloom thread
- Thread starter Bahnz
- Start date
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
We got pasted. Rain spared us from a 3-0 hammering. We showed just enough guts on the afternoon of the 5th day of the 3rd test to avoid losing a match that we never should've been at risk of losing in the first place. Other than that it was like going back in time and watching our mid 90's team get pulverised by the aussies.
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Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
I agree, which makes it all the more strange that most of our home tests now seem to be played on low, slow turners.
_Ed_
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We managed to bowl them out for less than 250 in the first innings of both of the first two Tests IIRC - not that bad against batsmen of their class. Although it is true that we wilted as the matches progressed.
We got pasted. Rain spared us from a 3-0 hammering. We showed just enough guts on the afternoon of the 5th day of the 3rd test to avoid losing a match that we never should've been at risk of losing in the first place. Other than that it was like going back in time and watching our mid 90's team get pulverised by the aussies.
So do I. Henry in particular. He showed his mettle against the Proteas last summer in the T20 at Hagley Park. He's a real talent, will play for NZ in the next 12-18 months.
Seen Wheeler bowl in the early 2010-11 season and he was all class. Quickish, swung it late and hit great areas. Fitness is going to be an issue, however.
We are crying out for a spinner. We could have competed a lot better in Antigua with an attacking spinner, even if he went for runs. Unfortunately there's nothing on the horizon.
Kippax
Cricketer Of The Year
Hah, yeah. I don't think Sodhi's groupings are anywhere near international standard yet, but I have to admit I've thought about what kind of U19 WC he would need to have, for Hesson to bundle him on a plane to Sri Lanka before he's played a single game for the Aces. Vettori's own Dipak Patel moment.rvd619323 said:
Mike5181
International Captain
Registered rugby players:
146,893 (total)
28,648 (adults)
Registered cricket players
110,000
Registered rugby league players
24,000 (total)
3,550 (adult)
We basically have (110,000 registered cricket players in New Zealand - females - social players - people outside the ideal age range) = possible Black Caps.
Kippax
Cricketer Of The Year
Ben Wheeler, "Elusive Stag" - YouTube
The fact I can quickly think of two other reasonably near-neighbour sports that have suffered dismal declines in NZ's bid to remain relevant and competitive (golf and tennis), and the fact we're becoming increasingly reliant on 'imports' in those as well, suggests the problem runs much deeper than simply Justin Vaughan being an incompetent, market-led milquetoast, or any other single person.
One of my own theories is that back as recently as the 90's, England and many of our other rivals and benchmarks were still trying to pursue a conscious narrative within their sports, and across a number of them you'd have to say they've found the abandonment of this liberating tstl. Flintoff (or Lewis Hamilton, or Rory McIlroy...) will never write a newspaper column of the intellectual scope of an Atherton, but they wouldn't acknowledge a "prick" or a "negative loser" like Atherton as the ideal for anything, which has perhaps been the telling change.
Ah okay, interesting. Saw the Knights named a minimum nine contracts. five more next Thursday.
Yep I'd AWTA. Guptill, Flynn, Williamson and Taylor certainly don't make me feel I've got a downgrade as a cricket-watcher from Horne, Bell, McMillan and Fleming. Our bowling clearly lacks two or three hardened and canny seamers in their late 20's compared to the Rixon era, so you can blame the injuries (and who knows tbh, maybe lack of sheer talent as well) of that Butler/Sherlock/Burtt generation for that.
The fact I can quickly think of two other reasonably near-neighbour sports that have suffered dismal declines in NZ's bid to remain relevant and competitive (golf and tennis), and the fact we're becoming increasingly reliant on 'imports' in those as well, suggests the problem runs much deeper than simply Justin Vaughan being an incompetent, market-led milquetoast, or any other single person.
One of my own theories is that back as recently as the 90's, England and many of our other rivals and benchmarks were still trying to pursue a conscious narrative within their sports, and across a number of them you'd have to say they've found the abandonment of this liberating tstl. Flintoff (or Lewis Hamilton, or Rory McIlroy...) will never write a newspaper column of the intellectual scope of an Atherton, but they wouldn't acknowledge a "prick" or a "negative loser" like Atherton as the ideal for anything, which has perhaps been the telling change.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
You would be right in some circumstances and wrong in others. Golf is our number 1 sport with over 400 000 people playing at least part time. And 138 000 people with club memberships.
Golf is far behind rugby in the country's mind in terms of general popularity yet more people play it. So this goes against your theory that the more popular sport gets the players.
That said, we have lost some cricketers to the game of rugby so the effect is there. But from my high school days you can play both at school and it is only when you leave school that you need to choose between both sports if you want to be a pro. If you are a regular Joe who plays club cricket you can play both rugby and cricket to your dieing day.
If rugby wasn't around I would hazard a guess we would have 10% more cricket players. It wouldn't be more than that my knowledge of cricket players is that they are quite "different" from rugby players. No one in my 1st XI was in the rugby team. More of them were soccer players.
Israel Dagg and some others did make the switch though so there you go.
wellAlbidarned
International Coach
Should apply to the ICC to have our population disadvantage factored in to our scores, especially against sides with enormous populations at their disposal like the West ind-
oh wait
oh wait
Howsie
International Captain
Bump.
Something needs to change and soon because New Zealand cricket is an absolute disgrace at the moment. Eighth in the test rankings and a long way behind the Windies, and eighth in the ODI rankings and about to be passed by Bangladesh. How in the world did it get this bad in such a short period of time? As it is, John Buchanan, Mike Hesson and whoever else actually cares need to sit down and face facts, we've stunk for the last few years, we stink now, we'll stink in two years so how do we make sure we won't continue to be the laughing stock of the cricketing world in the next three to four years. That's the question because there isn't a quick fix when it comes to this team.
MASS CLEANOUT. I jest, but I do believe a few of the older guys should be given the tap on the shoulder. If you're losing anyway you might as well lose with some younger guys AFAIC. Same with sub par cricketers, players such as Andy Ellis, Nathan McCullum, Luke Woodcock etc are a waste of time. You'd be better off playing guys like Jimmy Neesham or Corey Anderson, bat them at seven or eight and have them chip in with six or seven overs. Sure they might stuggle but their upside is as such that you'll reap the benefits in two or three years. Like Tom Latham why not take one or two other younger guys on overseas trips like the Windies tour and give them a game or two. What's the worst that will happen, we lose?
Actual "A" tours would help a lot too. How many have New Zealand gone on during the last five years, my count is two. Once each to Zimbabwe and India. That in itself just isn't good enough, nowhere near infact.
Something needs to change and soon because New Zealand cricket is an absolute disgrace at the moment. Eighth in the test rankings and a long way behind the Windies, and eighth in the ODI rankings and about to be passed by Bangladesh. How in the world did it get this bad in such a short period of time? As it is, John Buchanan, Mike Hesson and whoever else actually cares need to sit down and face facts, we've stunk for the last few years, we stink now, we'll stink in two years so how do we make sure we won't continue to be the laughing stock of the cricketing world in the next three to four years. That's the question because there isn't a quick fix when it comes to this team.
MASS CLEANOUT. I jest, but I do believe a few of the older guys should be given the tap on the shoulder. If you're losing anyway you might as well lose with some younger guys AFAIC. Same with sub par cricketers, players such as Andy Ellis, Nathan McCullum, Luke Woodcock etc are a waste of time. You'd be better off playing guys like Jimmy Neesham or Corey Anderson, bat them at seven or eight and have them chip in with six or seven overs. Sure they might stuggle but their upside is as such that you'll reap the benefits in two or three years. Like Tom Latham why not take one or two other younger guys on overseas trips like the Windies tour and give them a game or two. What's the worst that will happen, we lose?
Actual "A" tours would help a lot too. How many have New Zealand gone on during the last five years, my count is two. Once each to Zimbabwe and India. That in itself just isn't good enough, nowhere near infact.