**Official** South Africa in England 2012

[Jacknife]

Bull, we have no decent spinner, for ages, we have no regular opening pair, and for a while after steyn there was nothing in the bowling. Cricket is the third most popular sport in SA. With all that infrastructure England have they should have dominated more.



Its not just about being favourites its also the position of the match, Gattings reverse sweep, More recent times the final against the West Indies(not the dominant Windies side mind you), Windies were 8 down I think and England blew it - to name a few. Its quite easy to say in retrospect that England were not very good anyway, but people sing a different tune each time a tournament rolls around.

Really, I can't remember a time in the last couple of decades that England have gone into a WC as a potential winner, whereas since re-admission SA have nearly every single time.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Gotta be a gee up.

Nope, honest injun.

Used to earn my pocket money scraping pigeon crap out of his loft. #itwerehardwheniwerealad

 

[benchmark00]

Nope, honest injun.

Used to earn my pocket money scraping pigeon crap out of his loft. #itwerehardwheniwerealad

outstanding.

 

[benchmark00]

I mean ****, I don't even understand how pigeon racing works. You let a few of the ****s loose and hope they find their way to the finish line?

 

[akilana]

Really, I can't remember a time in the last couple of decades that England have gone into a WC as a potential winner, whereas since re-admission SA have nearly every single time.

not really. The only time they were one of few favorites was probably in 1999 and 2003. Both time losing to Australia wasnt a shame given that they were probably the best ODI team of all time. Even last time people werent having them as a favorite to win it, saying they would choke, don't have balanced team etc. They lost to even England at home, barely beat a depleted indian team, lost to india in ireland and in india. They were so inconsistent. But soon after SA were knocked out, the same people were saying SA choked as if they were expected to go all the way. England has been a better ODI team than SA for a while now and for me they had more chances than SA to win the last WC.

Now nobody is giving a chance to SA in t20 WC, when SA gets knocked out, all will be saying SA choked again. It has become bit of boring. At the end of the day SA and England have 0 WCs and SA played less WC.

 

[akilana]

How can England be performing better when we are number 1 in tests and T20's and 3rd in the ODI rankings?

Strange conclusions you have there.

by not losing to pakistan and WI away.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I mean ****, I don't even understand how pigeon racing works. You let a few of the ****s loose and hope they find their way to the finish line?

Pretty much.

They're all released at the same time and the winner is calculated on the quickest average speed as they obviously all return to their home lofts.

They have a rubber ring put on their legs before release and when they get back it's removed and put in a metal thimble and then "clocked in" on a special clock that records the exact time.

Old man would do his nut when he couldn't get one to come into the loft so he could get the ring off.

Suffice to say its appeal was lost on me.

 

[benchmark00]

Rio 2016.

 

[Cabinet96]

not really. The only time they were one of few favorites was probably in 1999 and 2003. Both time losing to Australia wasnt a shame given that they were probably the best ODI team of all time. Even last time people werent having them as a favorite to win it, saying they would choke, don't have balanced team etc. They lost to even England at home, barely beat a depleted indian team, lost to india in ireland and in india. They were so inconsistent. But soon after SA were knocked out, the same people were saying SA choked as if they were expected to go all the way. England has been a better ODI team than SA for a while now and for me they had more chances than SA to win the last WC.

Now nobody is giving a chance to SA in t20 WC, when SA gets knocked out, all will be saying SA choked again. It has become bit of boring. At the end of the day SA and England have 0 WCs and SA played less WC.

Tbf, the hype around SA last time was definitely there, even if it arrived late. They weren't pre tournament favourites, but the way they played in the group stages led a lot of people to believe they would win.

 

[akilana]

Tbf, the hype around SA last time was definitely there, even if it arrived late. They weren't pre tournament favourites, but the way they played in the group stages led a lot of people to believe they would win.

What do you expect? Would they be saying we are here lose? Of course, SA would be hyping up their team but it doesn't make them better. General public didnt have them as favorites and their form going into the WC was average. They didn't really have the team. After Amla, Kallis and AB, there was nobody that could bat. Their form in group stages wasn't great; lost to england.

 

[Heboric]

Really, I can't remember a time in the last couple of decades that England have gone into a WC as a potential winner, whereas since re-admission SA have nearly every single time.

Barring 1999 I beg to differ, even England were hammering the Proteas in ODI's for a while

 

[andruid]

Yes as Marius pointed out what do you mean by this

That was the kind of post that should be ignored, and it was before Tsolekile got called up. Anyway, what are the odds He'll actually start a test? Now that I'm moving away from sillyness.

 

[stumpski]

Forecast is a lot better for tomorrow btw - might even get a full day in. It'll depend on the state of the ground of course, they need a dry night.

 

[Jacknife]

Barring 1999 I beg to differ, even England were hammering the Proteas in ODI's for a while

The last one even you where expected to be right up there. 96 you were one of the favs going in and topped the group stages. 99 In England you were talked up as one of main contenders and again topped the group stages. 03 in you're own back yard and still had a good team but ****ed up against Sri Lanka. In 2007 you went into that competition as the No1 ranked side.

 

[uvelocity]

geez lack of humour in here

 

[NasserFan207]

Seems this thread has turned into a competition over who has worse infrastructure/cricket attendance.

More interested in the pigeons myself

 

[theegyptian]

haha threads always degrade into this kind of conversation in the lead upto a big test series. can't wait for the action to start - just gotta hope for some good weather.

 

[Briony]

Yeah well the fact we were miles down the rankings 3 years ago has something to do with that. You don't get to be number 1 overnight you know. The fact is SA were far better placed in most of the last 3 years to become the best side and flunked it. If we beat you in this series it will take you a long time to get anywhere near the top again.

SA basically lost their chance with many losses in Durban didn't they? It was the difference between winning three extra series form memory.

I think both Australia and SA have climate and space advantages over England but probably all three countries have a similar proportion of their populaton playing. Much of the infrastructure possibly gets back to the quality of what's provided at schools as much as anything. I certainly recall Roebuck writing that the top schools in SA equalled the facilites in England and oz. You do wonder why though there isn't more investment at grassroots level given the extra funds generated by T20, and in the case of SA hosting the IPL and CL.

I made the point about Trott and KP because in the context of infrastructure etc. if you took them out of England and made them available for SA would England still be #1 and would people be arguing that SA has inferior infrastructure hence should be below the poms in the pecking order?

 

[wpdavid]

SA basically lost their chance with many losses in Durban didn't they? It was the difference between winning three extra series form memory.

I think both Australia and SA have climate and space advantages over England but probably all three countries have a similar proportion of their populaton playing. Much of the infrastructure possibly gets back to the quality of what's provided at schools as much as anything. I certainly recall Roebuck writing that the top schools in SA equalled the facilites in England and oz. You do wonder why though there isn't more investment at grassroots level given the extra funds generated by T20, and in the case of SA hosting the IPL and CL.

I made the point about Trott and KP because in the context of infrastructure etc. if you took them out of England and made them available for SA would England still be #1 and would people be arguing that SA has inferior infrastructure hence should be below the poms in the pecking order?

That's all pretty fair.

Thinking about some of the recent posts, there's different types of under-achievement in the two countries. For England, it's the failure to produce undeniably world class cricketers over a long period of time, especially if you accept that KP and Trott learnt much of their trade elsewhere. For SA, it's not hitting the heights they should given the players at their disposal, and/or the tendency to get a nose bleed when they're too close to the summit.

 

[uvelocity]

so they both suck, guess we can all agree with that