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Ranking the great fast bowlers

silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
kyear2 said:
Your goal seems to be to prove that the bowlers of today are fitter, faster and probably better.
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No.

kyear2 said:
I just don't buy that. Holding, Marshall, Thompson were faster than the bowlers today, who by the way cany seem to be able to remain fit and on the field, and one day in front of a radar gun in artificial cirxustances can prove otherwise.
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I am merely listing scientifically measured speeds. You can buy whatever you want. People believe that the position of Jupiter has something to do with what their day will be like. I can't control that.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
watson said:
Just out of interest Silent Striker:

Do you agree with those speeds of 159-160 kph clocked against Shoaib Akhtar using modern radar?
If not, what then is a reasonable speed for Shoaib Akhtar 'out of the hand'?

Do you believe that Jeff Thomson consistently bowled slower, faster, or about the same as Shoaib Akhtar during the late 70s? Explain.

Cheers.
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  1. Speeds of 159-160? He hit 160kph once, and I remember him going above 155kph very rarely. His normal speeds weren't that high - but unless something comes out saying the speed guns were inaccurate that day, I have no reason to doubt it. Clearly all speed guns all over the world haven't malfunctioned for the past 20 years, so he certainly has proven himself to be able to bowl at 150+kph. And out of hand speed for Akhtar is whatever the speed guns are showing. How else could you estimate something like that?
  2. During the late seventies? I would highly doubt it. Remember he had a collarbone injury in 1976, and he did lose a decent amount of speed. So in 1979, him being still the fastest bowler is astonishing. I would say that between 1972-1976 he probably bowled as fast or maybe even faster than anyone else that has played. There is little proof but it's not unreasonable by any means.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
As I commented last time, that's one of the few times where I've actually lost sight of the ball. He bowls ... and then there are only two stumps in the ground. No in-between at all.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
silentstriker said:
I don't think they did. A couple did. I think most people are logical enough to accept a scientifically measured result of speeds over "omg I kept to him and I swear it broke the speed of sound" type claims. "

They may believe them but it's the "back in my day, we walked uphill both ways" type claims. It seems ludicrous to say that every sport has people running faster, jumping higher, hitting harder and pitching faster but In The Golden Age of Cricket the men were men and Hobbs hit bouncers for four with a straight bat while blindfolded off his front foot.

But in any case all of the claims are irrelevant because we actually have measured data so it's not a matter of "belief" anymore. But hey, people still believe in faked moon landings so data is clearly not enough in some people's eyes.
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:laugh:

I love it when SS gets expressive.
 
ankitj

ankitj

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
smalishah84 said:
awta.......some of the guys I played in the streets of Pakistan were so damn quick.....I couldn't imagine how Shoaib Akhtar could be faster than them
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That might have something to do with the fact that you're a pathetic batsman itbt.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Jager said:
SS, do you just disregard the studies of '75 and '76?

Records | All cricket records (including minor cricket) | Miscellaneous records | Bowling speeds (2) | ESPN Cricinfo
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No, I don't disregard it, but I was able to personally speak to the person who did the 1979 one but I have been unable to find any data on the 1975 and 1976 ones, so I have no idea how they were done or who did them. Basically, I can't speak to their accuracy. If you have any information on that, I'd be more than happy to follow up - if they were done by a university, that information should be available in their archives and most universities have interloan type services for papers/data such as this, so I might be able to get that through my own university.

On the other hand, the 1979 study I have a high degree of confidence in.
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
silentstriker said:
The competition measured accuracy too so they weren't only going for speed. Plus it makes little sense that every single one of them just all of a sudden happened to be out of rhythm because they couldn't adjust to being told 'bowl as fast as you can while remaining accurate.'
Those instructions aren't exactly much outside their normal strike zone.
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Somehow, I don't think Thommo would be big on 'accuracy' competitions :p
I get the feeling quite a few would have run up and thrown it down as hard as they could, and fast bowlers being the archetypal dumb folk, probably didn't realise pace comes from their rhythm, not from the amount of muscle being put in.

And surely an accuracy-seeking Thomson wouldn't have bowled a waist high full toss. What people are told to do, and what people end up doing can be very different.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
rvd619323 said:
Somehow, I don't think Thommo would be big on 'accuracy' competitions :p
I get the feeling quite a few would have run up and thrown it down as hard as they could, and fast bowlers being the archetypal dumb folk, probably didn't realise pace comes from their rhythm, not from the amount of muscle being put in.
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I think that's stretching it quite a bit. These guys were bowling for their entire life - I think it's kind of crazy to suggest they just forgot how to generate their maximum pace all of a sudden when told to hit the stumps as accurately and as fast as they could. And ALL of them too - not just one or two.
 
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silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Nothing. I just corrected the erroneous statement that speeds were measured at the batsman's end in the 1979 study. It is a fact that they were not.
 
watson

watson

Banned
silentstriker said:
Nothing. I just corrected the erroneous statement that speeds were measured at the batsman's end in the 1979 study. It is a fact that they were not.
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You seem so certain about that. What evidence do you currently have given that both Imran and Thommo (see previous Mack Nicholas interview) believe that their speed was calculated "at the stumps"? That is, the batsman's stumps.

Just curious.
 
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silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
watson said:
You seem so certain about that. What evidence do you currently have given that both Imran and Thommo (see previous Mack Nicholas interview) believe that their speed was calculated "at the stumps"? That is, the batsman's stumps.

Just curious.
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Several years back this same discussion was happening, so I decided to get in contact with Dr. Frank Pyle at the University of Western Australia who conducted the study. I explained to him about the possible misconceptions and he told me how he did them. It's in a past thread somewhere and I still have our emails.

The final velocity was measured right at the release point (when the ball would be travelling the fastest).
 
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