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Ranking the great fast bowlers

watson

watson

Banned
None. It was a bowling analysis, not a fast bowling analysis. The fast bowlers that did come out on top were, as I've said.......
 
AndyZaltzHair

AndyZaltzHair

Hall of Fame Member
Is Jeff Thomson the fastest ever?

Competing in a 1978 fast bowling contest that included many of the leading bowlers in the world, Thomson came first with a delivery clocked at 147.9 km/h, ahead of Michael Holding (141.3 km/h) and Imran Khan (139.7 km/h). In 1975 during a Test match, he was timed using high-speed cameras with a release speed of 160.45 km/h; the following year he was timed at 160.58 km/h using conventional radar.[2] Australian wicket-keeper Rod Marsh kept wicket to Thomson for most of his Test career and claimed that Thomson bowled upwards of 180 km/h. Former West Indies captain Clive Lloyd regards Thomson as the fastest bowler he has ever seen.[3] Thomson himself noted that he had been timed at the batsman's end of the pitch (by which time the ball has slowed) and believes had he been timed out of the hand he would have been closer to 180 km/h.[4] Frank Tyson wrote that "at a muzzle velocity of 99.6 m.p.h. Thompson is so fast and human reaction time is so slow that scientists have calculated that the batsman has to begin playing a stroke against him more than .062 of a second before 'Thommo' lets go of the ball".[5]

Note: The fastest delivery that has ever been officially recorded clocked in at 161.3 km/h (100.2 mph) and was bowled by Shoaib Akhtar.
 
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silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Ok there is no way he was timed at the batsmans end at 160 unless it was a full toss. In fact, it is almost impossible that he (or anyone) was timed at the batsmans end at all.

We know the 1979 tests were at the bowlers end and he was around 90mph. However that was past his prime and he hadn't played cricket for a while so I can believe that at his fastest he was maybe 155-160kph but beyond that is most likely fantasy.

Baseball pitchers are faster (both on average and at top speeds) and none of them ever came close to 180. Afaik the record is around 105mph, which is 168kph.

EDIT: I have no problem believing that Thommo was the fastest ever. But let's be realistic about the speeds.
EDIT2: We just had this discussion a couple months ago. :p
 
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watson

watson

Banned
It was a bowling analysis, not a fast bowling analysis. The fast bowlers that did come out on top were.... well you can read them at numbers 2,3, and 4.
 
watson

watson

Banned
:p
silentstriker said:
Ok there is no way he was timed at the batsmans end at 160 unless it was a full toss. In fact, it is almost impossible that he (or anyone) was timed at the batsmans end at all.

We know the 1979 tests were at the bowlers end and he was around 90mph. However that was past his prime and he hadn't played cricket for a while so I can believe that at his fastest he was maybe 155-160kph but beyond that is most likely fantasy.

Baseball pitchers are faster (both on average and at top speeds) and none of them ever came close to 180. Afaik the record is around 105mph, which is 168kph.

EDIT: I have no problem believing that Thommo was the fastest ever. But let's be realistic about the speeds.
EDIT2: We just had this discussion a couple months ago. :p
Click to expand...
And if I remember rightly most punters disagreed with you
 
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ankitj

ankitj

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
watson said:
I happen to agree (more or less) with the stats in the following analysis that gave the following top 10 ranking (although Anantha actually analysed a select 15 bowlers);

It Figures | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

1. Murali
2. McGrath
3. Hadlee
4. Marshall
5. Ambrose
6. Imran
7. Lillee
8. Donald
9. Garner
10,Warne
Click to expand...
Something is not right with the average value of wicket measure there. From a similar exercise I did, this fellow is understating everyone's value of wickets. Looks like he has taken a simple average of all batsmen dismissed rather than weighting by number of times a batsman is dismissed.

While I more or less like the final result if that analysis, I have serious reservations on the approach.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
watson said:
:p

And if I remember rightly most punters disagreed with you
Click to expand...
I don't think they did. A couple did. I think most people are logical enough to accept a scientifically measured result of speeds over "omg I kept to him and I swear it broke the speed of sound" type claims. "

They may believe them but it's the "back in my day, we walked uphill both ways" type claims. It seems ludicrous to say that every sport has people running faster, jumping higher, hitting harder and pitching faster but In The Golden Age of Cricket the men were men and Hobbs hit bouncers for four with a straight bat while blindfolded off his front foot.

But in any case all of the claims are irrelevant because we actually have measured data so it's not a matter of "belief" anymore. But hey, people still believe in faked moon landings so data is clearly not enough in some people's eyes.
 
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Jacknife

Jacknife

International Captain
silentstriker said:
I don't think they did. A couple did. I think most people are logical enough to accept a scientifically measured result of speeds over "omg I kept to him and I swear it broke the speed of sound" type claims. "

They may believe them but it's the "back in my day, we walked uphill both ways" type claims. It seems ludicrous to say that every sport has people running faster, jumping higher, hitting harder and pitching faster but In The Golden Age of Cricket the men were men and Hobbs hit bouncers for four with a straight bat while blindfolded off his front foot.

But in any case all of the claims are irrelevant because we actually have measured data so it's not a matter of "belief" anymore. But hey, people still believe in faked moon landings so data is clearly not enough in some people's eyes.
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Agree.
 
watson

watson

Banned
AndyZaltzHair said:
Is Jeff Thomson the fastest ever?

Competing in a 1978 fast bowling contest that included many of the leading bowlers in the world, Thomson came first with a delivery clocked at 147.9 km/h, ahead of Michael Holding (141.3 km/h) and Imran Khan (139.7 km/h). In 1975 during a Test match, he was timed using high-speed cameras with a release speed of 160.45 km/h; the following year he was timed at 160.58 km/h using conventional radar.[2] Australian wicket-keeper Rod Marsh kept wicket to Thomson for most of his Test career and claimed that Thomson bowled upwards of 180 km/h. Former West Indies captain Clive Lloyd regards Thomson as the fastest bowler he has ever seen.[3] Thomson himself noted that he had been timed at the batsman's end of the pitch (by which time the ball has slowed) and believes had he been timed out of the hand he would have been closer to 180 km/h.[4] Frank Tyson wrote that "at a muzzle velocity of 99.6 m.p.h. Thompson is so fast and human reaction time is so slow that scientists have calculated that the batsman has to begin playing a stroke against him more than .062 of a second before 'Thommo' lets go of the ball".[5]

Note: The fastest delivery that has ever been officially recorded clocked in at 161.3 km/h (100.2 mph) and was bowled by Shoaib Akhtar.
Click to expand...
A RELEASE SPEED of 160.45 kph and a speed at the BATSMAN END of 147.6 kph (from memory the study in question was calculating the speed of the ball at the batsmans end) seem perfectly reasonable numbers to me, and I have no practical reason to doubt Andy's quote.

Agreed though that Rod Marsh must have been on drugs to assume a speed of 180 kph.

But whichever way you cut it, everything suggests that Thommo and Shoaib are the fastest fast bowlers recorded thus far. I think this is the best opinion that we can come up with.
 
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wellAlbidarned

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Nah, the "Worlds Fastest Bowler" thing where Thommo was clocked at 147.9 was release speed I'm pretty sure. It's on youtube somewhere.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
watson said:
A RELEASE SPEED of 160.45 kph and a speed at the BATSMAN END of 147.6 kph (from memory the study in question was calculating the speed of the ball at the batsmans end) seem perfectly reasonable numbers to me, and I have no practical reason to doubt Andy's quote.
Click to expand...
If you are talking about the 1979 study, all readings were out of the hand. Just like they do today. I have never heard of any instance of anyone measuring the speed at the batsman's end. Ever.

Might have happened, but considering the nature of (for example) a full toss delivery or a yorker vs. a normal length or a short ball, it would give many misleading results and wouldn't really make much sense.
 
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