Group D Discussion - Ukraine, Sweden, France, England

[andruid]

Why no Michael Carrick? He's a parser, as opposed to the rest of the England pack who just run headlong at defences.

 

[grecian]

Why no Michael Carrick? He's a parser, as opposed to the rest of the England pack who just run headlong at defences.

He was left out of the original squad (wrongly), but then he pouted and took his ball home to mum, or Taggart as she's otherwise known.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Hmm yea we're going to leave out Johnson because of some supposed issues when we've got guys like John ****ing Terry in the squad, who's **** and a ****.

The difference with Downing was even though he should still have played it was all about balance. Playing Joe Cole or whoever there completely stuffed the balance. It was far better having anyone competent with a left foot who can play that position. Generally your wingers have the least influence on a game anyway, if you're completely stuffing the balance it isn't going to be compensated for by a good performance. Joe Cole played rubbish, tracked back worse than Adam Johnson and stuffed the balance. Downing isn't classy at international level, he's competent, he deliveries decent balls into the right areas. He does a job. Adam Johnson on the other hand has far more class, he's a genuine goal threat - last season for Man City he had a goal or assist every 90odd minutes, more than virtually every other player at Man City. He belongs at international level. He's a cut above Theo "45 good minutes a month" Walcott and James "total plodder" Milner. It's as clear as day to anyone who actually watches them play.

 

[marc71178]

Joe Cole was so much better on the left wing then anyone else has been in years. To suggest Downing should have been playing ahead of him is one of the most ridiculous calls I've ever heard.

 

[grecian]

Hmm yea we're going to leave out Johnson because of some supposed issues when we've got guys like John ****ing Terry in the squad, who's **** and a ****.

The difference with Downing was even though he should still have played it was all about balance. Playing Joe Cole or whoever there completely stuffed the balance. It was far better having anyone competent with a left foot who can play that position. Generally your wingers have the least influence on a game anyway, if you're completely stuffing the balance it isn't going to be compensated for by a good performance. Joe Cole played rubbish, tracked back worse than Adam Johnson and stuffed the balance. Downing isn't classy at international level, he's competent, he deliveries decent balls into the right areas. He does a job. Adam Johnson on the other hand has far more class, he's a genuine goal threat - last season for Man City he had a goal or assist every 90odd minutes, more than virtually every other player at Man City. He belongs at international level. He's a cut above Theo "45 good minutes a month" Walcott and James "total plodder" Milner. It's as clear as day to anyone who actually watches them play.

He doesn't though does he? You don't go a whole season without an assist if you do. The job he does is exceptionally poor. Oh and Joe Cole did track back, nor was he lazy, just a, well, lazy thing people who've never seen him play say, it goes along with the skilful players have no work-rate thing which holds us back. He was not a left-winger though, as you say, but Downing isn't an international player. Cole wouldn't have wanted to play in that position, but we had no other decent options.

We've had a left-sided problem for years, as Marc said Cole was as good as we've had, even if he was in no way perfect.

I would have had Johnson in the squad, but has been said, seems he has attitude problems which isn't something you want from a fringe player. Walcott can play up front too.

 

[Ikki]

I feel dirty agreeing with Scaly but he is right. As much as I rail on Downing he does have decent delivery. But for poor finishing he'd have more than a handful of assists. Not a great season still, but his delivery is pretty good. It is his lack of getting past the man that stops him from becoming more than decent because in the games where he is beating the fullback - which didn't occur all too much last year - he looks like a world beater and you can see what Comolli and Kenny were thinking with him and Carroll.

Also agree with him that Johnson is a head and shoulders above all English wide-men IMO. Either Hodgson doesn't like him, doesn't rate him, or he has a really **** attitude as has been discussed. There is very little to doubt about his talent though IMO.

 

[sledger]

I feel dirty agreeing with Scaly but he is right. As much as I rail on Downing he does have decent delivery. But for poor finishing he'd have more than a handful of assists. Not a great season still, but his delivery is pretty good. It is his lack of getting past the man that stops him from becoming more than decent because in the games where he is beating the fullback - which didn't occur all too much last year - he looks like a world beater and you can see what Comolli and Kenny were thinking with him and Carroll.

Also agree with him that Johnson is a head and shoulders above all English wide-men IMO. Either Hodgson doesn't like him, doesn't rate him, or he has a really **** attitude as has been discussed. There is very little to doubt about his talent though IMO.

Yeah, but this is like saying "if he wasn't crap, he would be good".

 

[TT Boy]

I feel dirty agreeing with Scaly but he is right. As much as I rail on Downing he does have decent delivery. But for poor finishing he'd have more than a handful of assists. Not a great season still, but his delivery is pretty good. It is his lack of getting past the man that stops him from becoming more than decent because in the games where he is beating the fullback - which didn't occur all too much last year - he looks like a world beater and you can see what Comolli and Kenny were thinking with him and Carroll.

Also agree with him that Johnson is a head and shoulders above all English wide-men IMO. Either Hodgson doesn't like him, doesn't rate him, or he has a really **** attitude as has been discussed. There is very little to doubt about his talent though IMO.

He can’t get pass the man because he has no pace and can’t run with the ball. Unless Kenny thought he could make Downing pick up a yard of pace and learn to dribble, he was always going to be a dud. Interesting to see what Rodgers does with him, standard that all the Swansea midfield and wide players are either technically very good or top athletes, that would rule out Downing from starting a game.

 

[grecian]

Disagree slightly, actually think he is pretty quick. Can't beat a player and has little technical ability, and I don't think he has a good delivery considering that's his main selling point, average I'd call it, but he can sprint a bit.

 

[GIMH]

Lampard out, Henderson in.

 

[sledger]

Guess that's the end of Lampard's England career then.

 

[Pothas]

Well at least that means he can't play Lampard and Gerrard, Henderson though, I mean really.

 

[sledger]

Haha, a midfield of Henderson, Lampard, Gerrard and Downing, that really would be something to marvel at.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Downing's delivery tends to be in the right area, rather than going for the killer ball which sets up a near tap-in if it's absolutely pin-point. As for the stat about no assists - well there's also that stat about he created the most chances. It's kind of meaningless really. He has had plenty of assists when playing for England.

 

[sledger]

Downing's delivery tends to be in the right area, rather than going for the killer ball which sets up a near tap-in if it's absolutely pin-point. As for the stat about no assists - well there's also that stat about he created the most chances. It's kind of meaningless really. He has had plenty of assists when playing for England.

The right area? So he kicks it vaguely in the direction of the opposition goal, in other words.

I really wouldn't say the fact that an attacking player has ZERO assists or goals throughout the course of an entire season is in any way meaningless either.

I'd also wager the majority of his assists for England have come against fodder opposition, at home, in the early stages of qualification for major tournaments. I can't even remember him playing in a game of major significance, let alone making any meaningful contribution.

 

[Pothas]

He is just self evidently crap to be honest.

 

[grecian]

Have to say, I really do feel unclean talking about stats. 36 games without a goal or assist is possibly a statistical anomaly, yet the important thing is 'pool have looked a worse team with him in it.

His goal-scoring record is poor though, would ideally want a forward to bang in a few more goals. Never scored for England has he?

Yet who cares really, he shouldn't have ever played for England, but there's no great alternatives.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

We won't get through the group. Not that it really matters anyway, not like we have a prayer of winning it.

 

[Cevno]

Henderson has finally managed to make it.

It's basically Gerrard and Parker for England now, with all unproven backups.

 

[Cevno]

Disagree slightly, actually think he is pretty quick. Can't beat a player and has little technical ability, and I don't think he has a good delivery considering that's his main selling point, average I'd call it, but he can sprint a bit.

Yeah, agreed. Though it almost seems he has somehow lost bit of that pace since he moved to Liverpool....