A Batsman's 'Prime'

[Burgey]

Afternoon nap time for the old **** obviously.

Shouldn't you be churning out the billable hours, young one? Do I have to speak with your bosses again?

Oh, I nearly forgot.

Yadda yadda Hadlee

 

[Jono]

Shouldn't you be churning out the billable hours, young one?

Don't feel young at all after just reading GIMH's "Do you still buy physical music?" thread in OT.

**** me dead some of these blokes on CW haven't ever owned a CD.

 

[Burgey]

Still fewer have owned cassette tapes or 45rpm records

 

[vic_orthdox]

Don't worry Burgey, I used to record songs off the radio to make my own mix cassettes.

 

[Burgey]

Ah! Makes me feel better!

 

[Jono]

Don't worry Burgey, I used to record songs off the radio to make my own mix cassettes.

101.1 TTFM ftw

 

[weldone]

If we reach any sort of consensus on it then it'll be very easy for me to post up a list of every batsman's best (in terms of average) X innings. Could do it with standardised averages just as easily as well.

Will it be possible to do it for '30 consecutive dismissals' (my favorite that, you know )?

 

[weeman27bob]

Yep, and has stressed this before countless times.

Knowing Prince's ideology of judging cricketers (and its impossible not to know his if you post in Cricket Chat at all, since its in your face all the time, wac) Botham is one of the cricketers I'd imagine he would not rate too highly at all.

Are you suggesting that PEWS might favour longevity?

 

[Jono]

I think anyone who has been at CW longer than 2 days knows PEWS favours longevity

Not saying its wrong or right ftr. But him having Botham lower than Hadlee or Imran is perfectly consistent with his views on all other cricketers.

 

[Jager]

Prince, would there be any chance of creating a list which shows who made the most runs in their last 20 matches, so we can compare who went out on a high?

 

[chasingthedon]

Ok, i take back what i said about Ponting having the best post-bradman peak ... its clearly Sobers imo

52 Matches 88 Innings 5468 Runs Average: 72.90, 19 Hunderds, 20 Fifties

Far more impressive imo than Ponting's run, because this run of 50 odd test matches came over a period of 11 YEARS!!!

From 1957 to 1968, Sobers averaged 73... simply mind boggling

I posted a piece on CW some time ago comparing other players with Bradman's 80 innings, just to see if anyone was close to emulating him in terms of innings if not time:-

Cricket Web - Features: Eighty And Out (Slight Return)

There's a section on each batsman's best consecutive 80 innings, plus at the end an era-adjusted list, in which Richards features very highly (in reference to the OP).

 

[Prince EWS]

Will it be possible to do it for '30 consecutive dismissals' (my favorite that, you know )?

30-Dismissal Peaks

- Real Runs

			Start Peak	End Peak	Runs	Average

DG Bradman (Aus)	22 Jun 1934	10 Jun 1948	3445	114.83
GS Sobers (WI)		22 Aug 1957	13 Jan 1961	2615	87.17
RT Ponting (Aus)	8 Mar 2002	2 Jan 2004	2586	86.20
JH Kallis (SA)		12 Dec 2003	29 Apr 2005	2563	85.43
SR Waugh (Aus)		1 Jul 1993	22 Nov 1996	2525	84.17
Mohammad Yousuf (Pak)	20 Nov 2005	4 Jul 2009	2511	83.70
KC Sangakkara (SL)	22 Jul 2005	1 Dec 2007	2479	82.63
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)	27 Jul 2006	21 Feb 2009	2459	81.97
A Flower (Zim)		29 Oct 1999	27 Dec 2001	2396	79.87
WR Hammond (Eng)	13 Jul 1935	3 Mar 1939	2380	79.33
SR Tendulkar (Ind)	17 Oct 2008	4 Nov 2010	2341	78.03
TT Samaraweera (SL)	22 Mar 2008	26 May 2011	2331	77.70
ML Hayden (Aus)		11 Oct 2002	16 Mar 2004	2321	77.37
PA de Silva (SL)	19 Apr 1997	26 Feb 2000	2298	76.60
R Dravid (Ind)		4 Dec 2003	29 Jan 2006	2291	76.37
CL Walcott (WI)		8 Feb 1952	20 Jun 1957	2286	76.20
L Hutton (Eng)		23 Jul 1949	25 Jun 1953	2284	76.13
GA Gooch (Eng)		23 Mar 1990	22 Aug 1991	2278	75.93
SM Gavaskar (Ind)	16 Oct 1978	4 Dec 1979	2265	75.50
IVA Richards (WI)	23 Jan 1976	26 Jan 1980	2265	75.50
MEK Hussey (Aus)	17 Nov 2005	30 May 2008	2265	75.50
BC Lara (WI)		10 Apr 2003	4 Jun 2004	2258	75.27
DB Vengsarkar (Ind)	28 Nov 1984	12 Nov 1988	2253	75.10
S Chanderpaul (WI)	2 Jun 2006	6 Mar 2009	2248	74.93
DCS Compton (Eng)	31 Jan 1947	11 Jun 1949	2216	73.87
KF Barrington (Eng)	2 Jul 1964	22 Jun 1967	2211	73.70
ED Weekes (WI)		15 Feb 1952	30 May 1957	2183	72.77
DL Amiss (Eng)		2 Mar 1973	22 Aug 1974	2140	71.33
GS Chappell (Aus)	1 Mar 1974	1 Jan 1977	2108	70.27
G Gambhir (Ind)		23 Jul 2008	14 Feb 2010	2106	70.20
Javed Miandad (Pak)	3 Feb 1987	1 Dec 1989	2105	70.17
V Sehwag (Ind)		2 Jan 2004	13 Jan 2006	2097	69.90
HH Gibbs (SA)		15 Mar 2002	18 Mar 2004	2092	69.73
RB Simpson (Aus)	23 Jul 1964	20 Jan 1967	2085	69.50
AC Gilchrist (Aus)	5 Jul 2001	17 Oct 2003	2079	69.30
IR Bell (Eng)		19 Dec 2008	18 Aug 2011	2079	69.30
AN Cook (Eng)		12 Mar 2010	17 Jan 2012	2075	69.17
JB Hobbs (Eng)		11 Mar 1910	14 Jan 1921	2070	69.00
RG Pollock (SA)		10 Jan 1964	5 Feb 1970	2069	68.97
GA Headley (WI)		11 Jan 1930	22 Jul 1939	2065	68.83
AB de Villiers (SA)	18 Jul 2008	16 Dec 2010	2056	68.53
AR Morris (Aus)		1 Jan 1947	2 Feb 1951	2053	68.43
Zaheer Abbas (Pak)	22 Mar 1982	24 Oct 1984	2052	68.40
Younis Khan (Pak)	16 Mar 2005	11 Jan 2007	2046	68.20
H Sutcliffe (Eng)	4 Feb 1928	30 Dec 1932	2038	67.93
Inzamam-ul-Haq (Pak)	20 Aug 2003	26 Mar 2006	2036	67.87
AR Border (Aus)		27 Jun 1985	26 Dec 1986	2025	67.50
RN Harvey (Aus)		9 Jan 1953	7 Jun 1956	2016	67.20
CG Greenidge (WI)	30 Jan 1982	7 Dec 1984	1998	66.60
KD Walters (Aus)	10 Dec 1965	24 Dec 1969	1992	66.40
AD Nourse (SA)		24 Dec 1935	24 Dec 1949	1976	65.87
GC Smith (SA)		10 Jan 2008	3 Jan 2010	1969	65.63
VVS Laxman (Ind)	11 Apr 2008	12 Nov 2010	1960	65.33
GR Viswanath (Ind)	30 Dec 1977	26 Oct 1979	1949	64.97
ER Dexter (Eng)		8 Jun 1961	25 Jan 1963	1944	64.80
MP Vaughan (Eng)	11 Dec 2001	24 Jul 2003	1943	64.77
PBH May (Eng)		23 Jun 1955	24 Jul 1958	1922	64.07
CH Lloyd (WI)		13 Mar 1981	9 Aug 1984	1922	64.07
MJ Clarke (Aus)		16 Apr 2006	3 Jan 2009	1922	64.07
Hanif Mohammad (Pak)	17 Jan 1958	31 May 1962	1918	63.93
HM Amla (SA)		19 Nov 2008	16 Dec 2010	1916	63.87
G Boycott (Eng)		21 Jun 1973	10 Aug 1978	1914	63.80
MD Crowe (NZ)		8 Nov 1985	24 Feb 1989	1913	63.77
G Kirsten (SA)		2 Jan 2002	18 Mar 2004	1903	63.43
IJL Trott (Eng)		20 Aug 2009	21 Jul 2011	1896	63.20
VS Hazare (Ind)		1 Jan 1948	7 Feb 1953	1893	63.10
MC Cowdrey (Eng)	15 Feb 1963	11 Mar 1966	1892	63.07
MW Gatting (Eng)	28 Nov 1984	26 Dec 1986	1878	62.60
Shoaib Mohammad (Pak)	2 Apr 1988	12 Dec 1991	1878	62.60
FMM Worrell (WI)	11 Feb 1948	24 Feb 1954	1877	62.57
JC Adams (WI)		18 Apr 1992	29 Nov 1996	1872	62.40
DJ Cullinan (SA)	27 Feb 1999	6 Apr 2001	1850	61.67
TW Graveney (Eng)	30 Jan 1959	8 Feb 1968	1846	61.53
SJ McCabe (Aus)		10 Feb 1933	24 Jun 1938	1843	61.43
DC Boon (Aus)		29 Nov 1991	22 Jul 1993	1836	61.20
Saleem Malik (Pak)	15 Nov 1990	19 Jan 1995	1835	61.17
KP Pietersen (Eng)	11 May 2006	19 Jul 2007	1834	61.13
JL Langer (Aus)		23 Aug 2001	1 May 2003	1830	61.00
KWR Fletcher (Eng)	24 Mar 1973	20 Feb 1975	1829	60.97
GM Turner (NZ)		15 Oct 1969	20 Feb 1975	1805	60.17
RB Richardson (WI)	18 Nov 1988	23 Mar 1991	1805	60.17

- Standardised Runs

			Start Peak	End Peak	St Runs	St Average

DG Bradman (Aus)	13 Jun 1930	18 Aug 1934	3371.5	112.38
CL Walcott (WI)		8 Feb 1952	20 Jun 1957	2575.8	85.86
SM Gavaskar (Ind)	28 Jan 1978	21 Nov 1979	2500.9	83.36
SR Waugh (Aus)		1 Jul 1993	22 Nov 1996	2499.0	83.30
IVA Richards (WI)	23 Jan 1976	26 Jan 1980	2410.1	80.34
GS Sobers (WI)		22 Aug 1957	13 Jan 1961	2403.4	80.11
RT Ponting (Aus)	8 Mar 2002	2 Jan 2004	2346.9	78.23
A Flower (Zim)		29 Oct 1999	27 Dec 2001	2322.8	77.43
ED Weekes (WI)		15 Feb 1952	30 May 1957	2318.1	77.27
L Hutton (Eng)		23 Jul 1949	25 Jun 1953	2305.0	76.83
PA de Silva (SL)	19 Apr 1997	26 Feb 2000	2296.6	76.55
SR Tendulkar (Ind)	6 Mar 1997	29 Oct 1999	2287.6	76.25
Mohammad Yousuf (Pak)	20 Nov 2005	4 Jul 2009	2282.9	76.10
GA Headley (WI)		11 Jan 1930	22 Jul 1939	2280.9	76.03
JH Kallis (SA)		12 Dec 2003	29 Apr 2005	2214.8	73.83
R Dravid (Ind)		2 May 2002	13 Apr 2004	2212.9	73.76
RN Harvey (Aus)		9 Jan 1953	7 Jun 1956	2207.1	73.57
BC Lara (WI)		6 Apr 2001	4 Nov 2003	2206.2	73.54
DCS Compton (Eng)	31 Jan 1947	11 Jun 1949	2192.9	73.10
JB Hobbs (Eng)		11 Mar 1910	14 Jan 1921	2181.6	72.72
GR Viswanath (Ind)	30 Dec 1977	26 Oct 1979	2158.4	71.95
S Chanderpaul (WI)	2 Jun 2006	6 Mar 2009	2157.7	71.92
VS Hazare (Ind)		12 Dec 1947	21 Jan 1953	2155.5	71.85
GA Gooch (Eng)		23 Mar 1990	22 Aug 1991	2153.8	71.79
ML Hayden (Aus)		14 Dec 2001	9 Oct 2003	2130.9	71.03
KC Sangakkara (SL)	22 Jul 2005	1 Dec 2007	2127.5	70.92
AR Border (Aus)		26 Dec 1982	15 Aug 1985	2106.4	70.21
PBH May (Eng)		23 Jun 1955	24 Jul 1958	2101.2	70.04
DB Vengsarkar (Ind)	28 Nov 1984	12 Nov 1988	2066.7	68.89
KF Barrington (Eng)	25 Jan 1963	27 May 1965	2052.8	68.43
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)	27 Jul 2006	21 Feb 2009	2048.0	68.27
C Hill (Aus)		1 Jan 1898	11 Oct 1902	2029.0	67.63
WR Hammond (Eng)	13 Jul 1935	3 Mar 1939	2024.9	67.50
GS Chappell (Aus)	1 Mar 1974	1 Jan 1977	2016.2	67.21
RB Simpson (Aus)	23 Jul 1964	20 Jan 1967	2010.3	67.01
Javed Miandad (Pak)	9 Oct 1976	16 Dec 1979	2004.0	66.80
RG Pollock (SA)		10 Jan 1964	5 Feb 1970	1987.2	66.24
V Sehwag (Ind)		12 Dec 2003	20 Sep 2005	1980.1	66.00
AC Gilchrist (Aus)	5 Jul 2001	17 Oct 2003	1954.6	65.15
Younis Khan (Pak)	16 Dec 2004	4 Aug 2006	1947.4	64.91
MEK Hussey (Aus)	17 Nov 2005	30 May 2008	1942.2	64.74
MP Vaughan (Eng)	11 Dec 2001	24 Jul 2003	1933.2	64.44
AB de Villiers (SA)	18 Jul 2008	16 Dec 2010	1931.5	64.38
AD Nourse (SA)		20 Jan 1939	7 Jun 1951	1930.3	64.34
TT Samaraweera (SL)	22 Mar 2008	26 May 2011	1926.6	64.22
KD Walters (Aus)	10 Dec 1965	24 Dec 1969	1918.8	63.96
Inzamam-ul-Haq (Pak)	12 Mar 1999	31 May 2001	1915.3	63.84
JC Adams (WI)		18 Apr 1992	29 Nov 1996	1907.4	63.58
H Sutcliffe (Eng)	30 Nov 1928	23 Feb 1933	1906.5	63.55
GA Faulkner (SA)	6 Mar 1906	27 May 1912	1887.4	62.91
G Gambhir (Ind)		23 Jul 2008	14 Feb 2010	1883.8	62.79
SJ McCabe (Aus)		10 Feb 1933	24 Jun 1938	1880.9	62.70
Hanif Mohammad (Pak)	17 Jan 1958	31 May 1962	1877.4	62.58
FMM Worrell (WI)	8 Jun 1950	17 Mar 1954	1874.2	62.47
CH Lloyd (WI)		6 Apr 1973	26 Dec 1975	1866.4	62.21
DL Amiss (Eng)		2 Mar 1973	22 Aug 1974	1859.8	61.99
HH Gibbs (SA)		15 Mar 2002	18 Mar 2004	1847.7	61.59
Saleem Malik (Pak)	15 Nov 1990	19 Jan 1995	1831.4	61.05
AN Cook (Eng)		16 Dec 2009	16 Jun 2011	1828.1	60.94
CG Macartney (Aus)	7 Jan 1911	14 Aug 1926	1826.1	60.87
RA Smith (Eng)		22 Jun 1989	8 Aug 1991	1814.1	60.47
JH Edrich (Eng)		11 Jul 1968	25 Feb 1971	1812.7	60.42
MJ Clarke (Aus)		28 Nov 2008	13 Jul 2010	1810.7	60.36
MD Crowe (NZ)		8 Nov 1985	24 Feb 1989	1808.3	60.28
DJ Cullinan (SA)	27 Feb 1999	6 Apr 2001	1805.5	60.18
VVS Laxman (Ind)	11 Apr 2008	12 Nov 2010	1801.2	60.04
G Boycott (Eng)		21 Jun 1973	10 Aug 1978	1801.0	60.03
CG Greenidge (WI)	17 Jun 1976	29 Feb 1980	1800.5	60.02

 

[Neil Pickup]

I reckon the batsman's prime is probably 29 or 31.

They're still a bit young at 23, and usually over the hill by 37.

Carry on.

 

[shankar]

Prince, is it possible to calculate it for a time period instead of a number of innings?

 

[Prince EWS]

Prince, is it possible to calculate it for a time period instead of a number of innings?

Theoretically yes, but I'd have to change more than a line or two of code. I'll get back to you.

 

[shankar]

Theoretically yes, but I'd have to change more than a line or two of code. I'll get back to you.

Thanks.

 

[chasingthedon]

I thought of another way to look at this, using the ICC Player Rankings. I looked at the top 30 best ever rated batsmen and looked at their age at their peak (except Pollock). The plot is attached - it shows that, as we suspected (though this is admittedly a small sample), the peak tends to occur between 29 and 34 (almost 2/3rds of the sample).

Another interesting point is the duration of the peak - I took the peak in this case to be from the first and last points in his career at which the batsman came within 50 points of his all-time high rating:-

Player	duration
Bradman	14.2
Hammond	13.4
Tendulkar	12.8
Lara	10.3
Sobers	10.1
Headley	9.4
Hobbs	9.1
Dravid	7.8
Harvey	7
Richards	6.5
Waugh, SR	5.5
Barrington	5.3
Weekes	4.3
May	4
Hutton	3.8
Kallis	3.1
Nourse	2.4
Gavaskar	2.2
Walcott	2.2
Ponting	1.8
Hayden	1.5
Chanderpaul	1
Hussey	1
Compton	1
Walters	1
Sangakkara	0.8
Pietersen	0.8
Flower	0.3

Bradman top of course but interesting to see his peer Hammond very close, though Bradman's peak was significantly higher than Hammond's.

 

[Jager]

That is really interesting. Tendulkar once again awarded for his consistency, but I was surprised to see Hammond up so high. Would there be any chance of you posting the dates of each player's respective peaks?

 

[chasingthedon]

Here you go:-

Player	peak-year
Hobbs	1912
Hammond	1933
Bradman	1948
Headley	1948
Compton	1948
Nourse	1951
Harvey	1953
Hutton	1954
Walcott	1955
Weekes	1956
May	1956
Barrington	1965
Sobers	1967
Walters	1970
Gavaskar	1979
Richards	1981
Waugh, SR	1997
Flower	2001
Tendulkar	2002
Hayden	2002
Lara	2004
Dravid	2005
Ponting	2006
Kallis	2007
Sangakkara	2007
Pietersen	2007
Chanderpaul	2008
Hussey	2008

 

[Jager]

Here you go:-

Ah, my apologies, I should have made my request clearer. I was meaning to ask of the starting and finishing dates of the 'peak', for example Hobbs' peak of 9.1 (years, I assume) may have started on the 4th of January, 1920, and finished on the 10th of February, 1929. Would that be possible?