***Official*** Australia in the West Indies 2012

[Spikey]

well he's not saying that. he's disrupting the claim that Lyon is a fair deal better than him, which seems perfectly reasonable. they're the same bowler, afterall.

 

[Ruckus]

I don't think they're the same bowler at all...I think Lyon is just...how should I put this...better.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Exactly. For example, Warne was a fair deal better than Hauritz. I was more cringing at the word choice tbh.

 

[Spikey]

they're the same bowler was a joke, but it's also no more of a exaggeration than 'Lyon is a fair deal better than him.'. They're similar bowlers, hauritz was a solid test bowler, and so far lyon has been too. right now, if you told me lyon over the 5 ashes tests will average 32 I'll be ecstatic, with 36-37 being the expectation. I'm not expecting a far deal better result that's 4 sure.

Of course by the time the ashes starts lyon might have suffered hauritz's fate anyway

 

[Dan]

WW, the Roach decision was inconclusive either way - I'd hardly be going on about how it was a "pathetic" move by the umpires, DRS wouldn't have overturned it regardless.

Similarly, the Powell LBW would have been overturned on review - nobody's fault bar Powell/Bravo that it wasn't reviewed. Mistakes occasionally happen, umpiring 140km+ bowling isn't the easiest job in the world, let me tell you that. Ideally umpires should get it right, but occasionally they don't, hence DRS. Can hardly complain when Powell could have reviewed it but didn't.

There was an occasion recently where Shaun Marsh didn't review a decision that was clearly wrong - most of the Australians on here (myself included) just called him an idiot and got on with it.

And FFS what has Sammy done wrong? He averages 17 with the bat and 30 with the ball, sure, not brilliant stats, but they're nowhere near as dire as you seem to think. Shillingford and Deonarine are taking wickets because, funnily enough, the pitch is turning, and he used Roach well down the other end. If you have two spinners taking wickets, and one fast man doing well too, all he needs to do is rotate himself and Edwards as required.

With Roach/Fidel taking the new ball, and Shillingford/Deonarine bowling with the shine off on a spinner's paradise, you can hardly blame Sammy for underbowling himself. His shot was incredibly stupid though, I will give you that.


On a completely different note, Wade's keeping was dire from what I saw. #WeWantNev

 

[Ruckus]

Exactly. For example, Warne was a fair deal better than Hauritz. I was more cringing at the word choice tbh.

ha yeah well I obviously didn't mean that much better. Or did I.

 

[Spikey]

On a completely different note, Wade's keeping was dire from what I saw. #WeWantNev

I didn't think it was that bad tbh. I mean, he dived a bit more than he should have but it was pretty tricky conditions. Willing to be over-ruled though.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Wade'll have a nightmare game or two, but he's taken massive steps over the past few years as a gloveman, and I'd expect him to continue to improve. He's probably not going to ever look like Healy, but probably fair to say he's better than Prior at the same stages of their career.

Still cost me a forty wicket year in 2007/08

Obv. didn't watch much, but no byes? Just double clanging 'em, dropping them up to the stumps?

 

[Spikey]

and yeah i only saw the first session. BoyBrumby, PEWS tell us more

 

[Ruckus]

they're the same bowler was a joke, but it's also no more of a exaggeration than 'Lyon is a fair deal better than him.'. They're similar bowlers, hauritz was a solid test bowler, and so far lyon has been too. right now, if you told me lyon over the 5 ashes tests will average 32 I'll be ecstatic, with 36-37 being the expectation. I'm not expecting a far deal better result that's 4 sure.

Of course by the time the ashes starts lyon might have suffered hauritz's fate anyway

Yeah I wasn't bringing up the Hauritz stats with the intention of saying Lyon will necessarily do as well or better than that, just to counter WW's assertion that Lyon will inevitably fail over there - i.e. Hauritz is a decent, but unspectacular spinner, and had reasonable returns over there so why couldn't Lyon?

They are similar bowlers, but for me Hauritz was basically just a more innocuous version of Lyon, with less flight and probably even slightly less consistent (although I can't actually remember exactly how Hauritz bowled, it's been so long...but I don't ever remember being particularly impressed).

 

[Spikey]

Is Curtly Ambrose going bald, or is that a hairstyle of choice?

Either way...

i'm just happy to see him at the game tbh

 

[Spark]

Hauritz didn't turn it a great deal but he did have a slightly better line than Lyon to RHers IMO (although couldn't bowl at LHers to save his life... you need to pitch it on off stump Nathan, not a foot outside). Mostly he was just guilty of bowling the same ball too many times without using his variations.

 

[Spikey]

what variations? #ThisIsABadJoke #EvenForMe

 

[vic_orthdox]

Hauritz didn't turn it a great deal but he did have a slightly better line than Lyon to RHers IMO (although couldn't bowl at LHers to save his life... you need to pitch it on off stump Nathan, not a foot outside). Mostly he was just guilty of bowling the same ball too many times without using his variations.

Nah he bowled a line that a guy who couldn't really get a massive amount of sideways on the ball had to do. Hold its line and feed the gloves, arm ball slides on to hit middle and makes the batsman play more often than he should because he's aware of it, and if one spins then he brings slip into play.

If anything, his arm ball/slider drifted too much, so it made it hard from him to hit the batsman on the front foot a la Lyon to Chanderpaul yesterday, or Swann's trademark. If he hit the pad of the guy coming forward, for the ball to be hitting the stumps he's probably hit him outside the line.

 

[Ruckus]

Nah he bowled a line that a guy who couldn't really get a massive amount of sideways on the ball had to do. Hold its line and feed the gloves, arm ball slides on to hit middle and makes the batsman play more often than he should because he's aware of it, and if one spins then he brings slip into play.

If anything, his arm ball/slider drifted too much, so it made it hard from him to hit the batsman on the front foot a la Lyon to Chanderpaul yesterday, or Swann's trademark. If he hit the pad of the guy coming forward, for the ball to be hitting the stumps he's probably hit him outside the line.

Your actually a proper spin bowler yourself aren't you? Be interested to hear how you rate Hauritz and Lyon.

 

[Dan]

Wade'll have a nightmare game or two, but he's taken massive steps over the past few years as a gloveman, and I'd expect him to continue to improve. He's probably not going to ever look like Healy, but probably fair to say he's better than Prior at the same stages of their career.

Still cost me a forty wicket year in 2007/08

Obv. didn't watch much, but no byes? Just double clanging 'em, dropping them up to the stumps?

Well within the first 20 minutes of highlights I saw (middle session, just after the rain break/second new ball), he managed to deflect a Hilfenhaus ball that slid down the leg side to square leg and flat-out drop another one, plus missed a leg-side take from Beer earlier on as well. They weren't particularly difficult takes IMO.

His footwork wasn't particularly sharp - I think he was coming up out of the crouch a little too early and as such couldn't move sideways as well as he would have liked, thus meaning he had to rely on the dive to anything remotely leg-side. Wasn't helped by Hilfy's continual spraying of the ball down the leg side of the left handers, which from over the wicket is very difficult to take at the best of times.

In fairness, his stumping off Lyon was very well done, and the bounce of the pitch made things difficult. Overall I felt he was still sub-par though, at least throughout the period I saw.

Dire probably an exaggeration.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Nah he bowled a line that a guy who couldn't really get a massive amount of sideways on the ball had to do. Hold its line and feed the gloves, arm ball slides on to hit middle and makes the batsman play more often than he should because he's aware of it, and if one spins then he brings slip into play.

If anything, his arm ball/slider drifted too much, so it made it hard from him to hit the batsman on the front foot a la Lyon to Chanderpaul yesterday, or Swann's trademark. If he hit the pad of the guy coming forward, for the ball to be hitting the stumps he's probably hit him outside the line.

To give a bit more of a visual example, he gave Strauss a lot of trouble with his arm ball because of Strauss' propensity to go back to spin so could hit him in line. Other lefties could thrust their pad forward, a la pre-UDRS days, and be outside the line a lot easier.

 

[Spark]

Oh I forgot about Strauss' troubles against him. It's a good point.

 

[Spark]

Wade'll have a nightmare game or two, but he's taken massive steps over the past few years as a gloveman, and I'd expect him to continue to improve. He's probably not going to ever look like Healy, but probably fair to say he's better than Prior at the same stages of their career.

Still cost me a forty wicket year in 2007/08

Obv. didn't watch much, but no byes? Just double clanging 'em, dropping them up to the stumps?

 

[Spikey]

Oh I forgot about Strauss' troubles against him. It's a good point.

iirc I made about 2000 posts during the 2nd innings of the Gabba test about it so i'm not sure how you've forgotten about it tbh