The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
This is pretty much my thinking, but far more concisely.
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*Official* English Football Season 2011-12
- Thread starter Johnners
- Start date
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
As I said, Giggs was consistent and in the top echelon of players; but rarely, if ever, even at his peak, was he suggested as the best player in the league. Not from my memory. The aforementioned players all were. Giggs is not a bad choice, but I would not put him on the same level of a lot of those players who also had long careers. Of course, not as long as Giggs.
Speed? Honestly, I'm not sure he'd make my top 50 players of the last 20 years.
Speed? Honestly, I'm not sure he'd make my top 50 players of the last 20 years.
Ikki
Hall of Fame Member
I'd probably agree with that. Although I think if you don't consider at all what Ronaldo did after United at Real; then Henry from 02-04 was the devil in a footballer's body. He blew past players, scoring incredible goals regularly as well as setting up a ****load too.
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The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
I don't think either of us are taking Real into account - Ronaldo 07-08 was equally insane, and even better than Henry in Europe. IMO of course.
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Yeah no doubt but don't think I've ever seen someone be as stupidly good in English Football as Ronaldo was in 07-08.
The fact Messi and himself have dwarfed that season since just shows how ridiculous the two of thm are.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
I guess they were just determined to get an English manager in there to be honest. And like it or lump it, there's not many of those who have served for as long as he has, or had as much success (which albeit isn't a substantial amount, all things considered).
Scaly piscine
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
CDMs basically revolved around giving the ball to Chief Cheateur so he was involved with everything the team did. Since people invariably forget all the things he ****ed up and just remember the good things this creates the illusion that he was ever fit to lace Ronaldo's boots, when in fact he wasn't.
Was only a matter of time....
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I agree with your assessment of his quality but there's still no justification for leaving him out. You'd be undervaluing success pretty badly if you left out a key figure in 12 title-winning teams.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Hmm, he's played in a side that's been better in the league but I'm not convinced he has been better.
Yeah I wasn't criticising them, just responding to the post that either you or the other shandy drinker sledger made about them not spending loads to stay there. FTR I like seeing them survive, but as soon as they drop back down a league I am going back to hating them.
He may be I am no shandy drinker. Like real beer.
In fact I think Sledger had a London Pride last time I saw him.
cpr
International Coach
Zola is an awful name to put on the list. Looked good for a few years and smiled a lot. Might as well put Juninho on the list if thats the criteria. There is some mystique around Zola being sensational. Granted very good player, but lets not cream ourselves too much over memories of Chelsea before they became detestable.
Can understand people not having Cantona on the list. I'm a wee bit biased, and would like to argue that short brilliance shouldn't always be shunted for longevity, but I'll ceed that Lampard/Gerrard deserve it more than Eric. He can contend to be one of our legends instead.
This, word for word.
Disagree with this. First 5 years of the Prem at least Giggs was there as one of the best. Sure its hard to say who is the definitive best at any given season, as everyone has a different role. Saying Shearers better than Giggs or Le Tissier in those early days are judging people against vastly different criteria.
In my eyes Giggs had no equals amongst wingers upto the arrival of Ronaldo IMO (Beckham can make a case, for his ability to deliver a ball was phenominal, yet I'd still give Giggs the nod just because he could do everything, whereas Becks excelled in area's). Thats 10 years of being the dominant winger in the land, followed by another 10 years of still being at the top, still performing, and still producing match winning performances on a regular basis.
Can understand people not having Cantona on the list. I'm a wee bit biased, and would like to argue that short brilliance shouldn't always be shunted for longevity, but I'll ceed that Lampard/Gerrard deserve it more than Eric. He can contend to be one of our legends instead.
This, word for word.
Disagree with this. First 5 years of the Prem at least Giggs was there as one of the best. Sure its hard to say who is the definitive best at any given season, as everyone has a different role. Saying Shearers better than Giggs or Le Tissier in those early days are judging people against vastly different criteria.
In my eyes Giggs had no equals amongst wingers upto the arrival of Ronaldo IMO (Beckham can make a case, for his ability to deliver a ball was phenominal, yet I'd still give Giggs the nod just because he could do everything, whereas Becks excelled in area's). Thats 10 years of being the dominant winger in the land, followed by another 10 years of still being at the top, still performing, and still producing match winning performances on a regular basis.
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I think Lampard's way underrated, personally. You get so, so much from him- good passing, solid positioning, great set-piece delivery, more goals/assists than any other midfielder, and insane consistency- he missed four league games in six years. Under Ancellotti he pretty much won Chelsea the league single-handedly.
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The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
I do agree with this - hugely under-appreciated, immensely valuable. The Premier League's Kallis?
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Have always thought of Lampard as being a bit of a down-market Scholes to be honest.
Whilst I'll now concede that he's had a very good career, I will still say that I think that throughout certain periods the fact that he scored a lot of goals often masked the fact that he'd otherwise put in a lot of fairly anonymous performances.
Whilst I'll now concede that he's had a very good career, I will still say that I think that throughout certain periods the fact that he scored a lot of goals often masked the fact that he'd otherwise put in a lot of fairly anonymous performances.
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The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
A few other observations about the nominations:
Of the ten greatest saves of the PL era, Tomasz Kuszczak has apparently made two of them.
The greatest matches are all either massive goal-fests or famous thrashings (Newcastle 5-0 United, United 8-2 Arsenal, United 1-6 City are ridiculously all on the list).
Blackburn's 94-95 title winning side is somehow one of the five best teams of the past 20 years, better than United's double winning sides of '94 and '96, Arsenal's of '98 and '02 and Chelsea's of '10, as well as United's team of '09 which won the League, Carling Cup and Club World Championship, and reached the CL final. I'm thinking the PL decided they needed representation from each club to have won the trophy.
Of the ten greatest saves of the PL era, Tomasz Kuszczak has apparently made two of them.
The greatest matches are all either massive goal-fests or famous thrashings (Newcastle 5-0 United, United 8-2 Arsenal, United 1-6 City are ridiculously all on the list).
Blackburn's 94-95 title winning side is somehow one of the five best teams of the past 20 years, better than United's double winning sides of '94 and '96, Arsenal's of '98 and '02 and Chelsea's of '10, as well as United's team of '09 which won the League, Carling Cup and Club World Championship, and reached the CL final. I'm thinking the PL decided they needed representation from each club to have won the trophy.