CW Top 50 Cricketers of All Time - 2nd Edition

[Ikki]

Never been to India, eh?

I don't consider him better than players like Hobbs or sobers, and probably on par with guys like Chappell so I'm not the right guy to have this argument with but you should take an angle and focus on his performance and not words like transcending or things that will be missed - because you'll lose that argument.

I don't agree because I think you're missing the point to my reply. The thing that helps Sachin 'transcend' the game for Indians is because he an ATG + Indian.

 

[akilana]

+1

He didn't revolutionize anything, was not a great match winner, he accumulated runs for 20 years and had a great technique. Apart form the longevity it's even hard to say he was the best of his era ahead of Lara and Ponting, There are also some who say Dravid was better in a crisis and even the better match winner. People constantly defend Dev's bowling stats by saying that he bowled on those flat tracks, but never factor that in when discussing Sachin. Part of what I said about Warne, Marshall and Viv were that they were winners, can't indisputably say that about Tendy, he wasn't a great captain, or slip fielder or bowler like Sobers or captain and all rounder like Imran, and tired of hearing all the nonsense of carrying the hopes of a billion people, all players carry the hopes of their countries, it a privalege not a burden. He to me is comparable with Lara, Ponting, Hammond and Headley, but below the aforementioned Richards, Marshall, Warne, Sobers and of course Bradman.

so many bad points but carry on anyways

 

[Satguru]

I don't agree because I think you're missing the point to my reply. The thing that helps Sachin 'transcend' the game for Indians is because he an ATG + Indian.

eh, no. whether someone watches cricket or not, in any part of the world, chances are he'll know theres a guy called Tendulkar.

 

[silentstriker]

I don't agree because I think you're missing the point to my reply. The thing that helps Sachin 'transcend' the game for Indians is because he an ATG + Indian.

Meh, I don't say that about Gavaskar, or Dev. Even though I think Dev did more to help India win Test matches than Tendulkar. Or Ganguly, who was the best captain India ever had.

 

[biased indian]

I don't agree because I think you're missing the point to my reply. The thing that helps Sachin 'transcend' the game for Indians is because he an ATG + Indian.

When me and father used to watch game on tv the only question my mother used to asked about the game was wether tendulkar was out or not she was asking the same so that she can watch tv her logic was that if he is out there is no point in watching the game further..this has been the same for last 15 or so years in the same periods lot off them had played for india but I don't think she is aware of any of them.and i can tell there will be millions in india like my mother

 

[smash84]

When me and father used to watch game on tv the only question my mother used to asked about the game was wether tendulkar was out or not she was asking the same so that she can watch tv her logic was that if he is out there is no point in watching the game further..this has been the same for last 15 or so years in the same periods lot off them had played for india but I don't think she is aware of any of them.and i can tell there will be millions in india like my mother

Awta actually. Tendulkar is the only indian player that my mom knows of. She is hardly bothered about cricket. In fact Tendulkar is probably the only international cricketer she can recognize. Other than that she only knows of a handful of Pakistani cricketers which you can count on the fingers of one hand.

 

[Hurricane]

Awta actually. Tendulkar is the only indian player that my mom knows of. She is hardly bothered about cricket. In fact Tendulkar is probably the only international cricketer she can recognize. Other than that she only knows of a handful of Pakistani cricketers which you can count on the fingers of one hand.

Should start a thread on players that our Mum's know. Mine is clued up on the main NZ players and then a handful of overseas players from the 80s.

 

[Ikki]

eh, no. whether someone watches cricket or not, in any part of the world, chances are he'll know theres a guy called Tendulkar.

He is the most advertised cricketer in the world, probably in history. Heck they might know him more than Bradman or Viv. The fact that his career has coincided with India's rise as an economic power and he has benefitted the most from it hardly qualifies him in my eyes for the same legacy that the aforementioned players have.

More people might know of Beckham than Messi; to use that to add to Beckham's legacy is missing the point of this exercise. I am more concerned with the actions they took, not their PR team.

Meh, I don't say that about Gavaskar, or Dev. Even though I think Dev did more to help India win Test matches than Tendulkar. Or Ganguly, who was the best captain India ever had.

If you had the same exact player who had the same exact career and he was from NZ do you think the Indians would care about him like they do with Sachin? I find it hard to believe they would.

 

[Cevno]

If you had the same exact player who had the same exact career and he was from NZ do you think the Indians would care about him like they do with Sachin? I find it hard to believe they would.

Ofcourse they won't. But that's true with every single player in every sport and their fans. For bad or worse fans would "care" about players playing for their team more, as it directly affects the performance of the team they support. And that is even true shockingly of your beloved Ponting, Warne and Bradman. What is your point ?

It's not like fans of one country get more weightage over fans of another country, even if you may think so.

Edit - In anycase i don't know where you are taking this discussion too. The point was about legacy he has left with his career in his home country and beyond, and the pressure and external factors faced to stay in the game at top so long. Not about Indian fans caring about him more because he played for India.

 

[ankitj]

If you had the same exact player who had the same exact career and he was from NZ do you think the Indians would care about him like they do with Sachin? I find it hard to believe they would.

What is there to say that if Tendulkar was an Australian, he won't be as widely known as Warne is?

 

[Hurricane]

He is the most advertised cricketer in the world, probably in history. Heck they might know him more than Bradman or Viv. The fact that his career has coincided with India's rise as an economic power and he has benefitted the most from it hardly qualifies him in my eyes for the same legacy that the aforementioned players have.

More people might know of Beckham than Messi; to use that to add to Beckham's legacy is missing the point of this exercise. I am more concerned with the actions they took, not their PR team.
.

How does one transcend the game then>? And what does it mean to legitimately transcend the game.

 

[biased indian]

If you had the same exact player who had the same exact career and he was from NZ do you think the Indians would care about him like they do with Sachin? I find it hard to believe they would.

You where saying sehwag had more impact on indians than sachin hence there was reply to prove you wrong.and what does the above mean?

 

[Jono]

I can't believe Ikki doesn't think Sachin Tendulkar transcends the game of cricket. Don't care if you have Warne or Ponting or whomever as a greater cricketer, greater matchwinner, greater bloke etc. But to say Sachn doesn't transcent the sport, that statement is incredible.

Ikki, do you honestly think Beckham doesn't transcend the game of football?

I'm curious what your definition of it is.

 

[Satguru]

I can't believe Ikki doesn't think Sachin Tendulkar transcends the game of cricket. Don't care if you have Warne or Ponting or whomever as a greater cricketer, greater matchwinner, greater bloke etc. But to say Sachn doesn't transcent the sport, that statement is incredible.

Ikki, do you honestly think Beckham doesn't transcend the game of football?

I'm curious what your definition of it is.

AWTA.

Sachin is considered by many to be the greatest since bradman, and to say that he is so famous just because of advertising is a bit of a fallacy. The beckham comparison is weird.... beckham does transcend football in his own way, he isnt really well-known because of his football really... its primarily due to his looks, ***-appeal, as a youth icon blah blah...
Sachin is known world over to all people, whether they actually watch cricket or not, as a great sportsman, and an icon. That is pretty much my definition of "transcending the game"

 

[Adamc]

I'm sceptical of the claim that he's known the 'world over'. No doubt he's the best known cricketer, but outside of cricket-playing regions I'd be surprised if more than one in ten people could name him, or indeed any other cricketer.

 

[Satguru]

I'm sceptical of the claim that he's known the 'world over'. No doubt he's the best known cricketer, but outside of cricket-playing regions I'd be surprised if more than one in ten people could name him, or indeed any other cricketer.

One in ten is mighty impressive still dont you think. And if they DO know the name of any cricketer, it would be Sachin

 

[Adamc]

One in ten is mighty impressive still dont you think. And if they DO know the name of any cricketer, it would be Sachin

Sure it's impressive (if indeed it is the case), it just doesn't accord with what you've been saying. He is one of the most well known athletes, but his notoriety is largely confined to a handful of countries.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I haven't really participated in this, TBH I initially CBA to make a list and then plumb forgot, but I will just say it'd be very interesting if we repeated this with a priviso that no-one could vote for players who'd represented their own national side.

Suspect we'd see a quite different list.

 

[sachin200]

Would rather count the drops of water in ocean than having any discussion with Ikki

 

[Ikki]

What is there to say that if Tendulkar was an Australian, he won't be as widely known as Warne is?

I doubt it. We had several players who IMO are as great or greater than Tendulkar like Gilchrist, Ponting, McGrath and Border just during Warne's playing time. And they did not garner the same attention that Warne did. If Tendulkar was Australian he'd be rightly classed in with Ponting, Chappell, Border and Waugh in the rung below Bradman of great Australian batsmen. He'd never, ever, ever, be compared to Bradman - as Indians sometimes do - if he were Australian.

I can't believe Ikki doesn't think Sachin Tendulkar transcends the game of cricket. Don't care if you have Warne or Ponting or whomever as a greater cricketer, greater matchwinner, greater bloke etc. But to say Sachn doesn't transcent the sport, that statement is incredible.

Ikki, do you honestly think Beckham doesn't transcend the game of football?

I'm curious what your definition of it is.

Not at all, I don't think Beckham does. At least the way I value transcendence is far less superficial than that. Just being known and well-marketed is not really a reflection of what one brought to the game or brought for the game or the people that viewed it.

Viv refused a blank check to play during the apartheid era, in recognition of his brothers' fights for rights and was striking at a rate the others could only dream of; Warne was a hollywood blockbuster, headlines as improbable on the pitch as when he was off and mastered one of the toughest arts in the game becoming one of cricket's rarest talents; Bradman held the psyche of a nation together as they fought a war and is arguably the most dominant sportsman of all time; Imran commanded together a team, in a country where talent was often ample but leadership fought over and is arguably the greatest all-rounder of all time; Murali, like Warne was one of the rarest kinds of cricketer (a spin bowler who could hold his own against ATG greats) and forced people to look at their prejudices and almost reinvented bowling...

Tendulkar was an ATG bat, that's it. It's not like he scored them at a Bradmanish rate over his peers or that he was known as the man for the dire moments. Maybe we're getting to why we differ so much about this player but as I said in my initial post; I think Tendulkar's legacy is very one dimensional.

I expected the backlash from some, but the question was: why do people get in arms about Tendulkar being rated so highly? I think I speak for myself and some others with what I have said. I'll not repeat it again, but I will read people's responses and if I think they've changed my mind I'll comment.