the new zealand dilemma

[DingDong]

As a NZer, who has also spent a decent amount of time living in the UK and Australia (both Sydney & Melbourne). My observations;

People may be surprised at how 'unpopular' cricket is in NZ. But then I was also surprised at indifference of the majority of English also. Soccer really does dominate all over there. In Australia however, I think cricket has a much deeper penetration of both media and public attention (and playing numbers). While I think AFL is more popular in Melbourne than Rugby is in NZ - I also think that Australia has a much better scheduling/structure where there is a clear window from the end of Spring Carnival in November to about the end of February where cricket pretty much dominates.

agreed. no question that cricket is a lot more popular in australia with a higher percentage of active cricketers than in nz.

 

[Meridio]

Is cricket popular among the Maori population in NZ?

No. Barely rates a mention. And even less so amongst Pacific Islanders. There's been a few Maori players (e.g. Daryl Tuffey, Adam Parore), and there will be others who have some Maori blood, but by and large cricket is the domain of the white middle-class, with a (growing) smattering of people of Indian extraction.

 

[_Ed_]

Yeah, that's true, although I did play with and against quite a few Maori/Pacific kids when I played in high school.

 

[vic_orthdox]

It certainly happens in Wellington. That said, it's a case of play on astroturf wickets or don't play at all.

I remember hearing that and being very surprised. Think it sums up the difference between England's conditions and New Zealand's even though the climate would be somewhat similar.

At your "grade cricket" level as well?

 

[Immenso]

I remember hearing that and being very surprised. Think it sums up the difference between England's conditions and New Zealand's even though the climate would be somewhat similar.

At your "grade cricket" level as well?

In the first few weeks of season (October). Wellington Pearce Cup (Premier level) cricket is on astroturf. No other lower level club cricket has started by this stage.

Then for the next few weeks after that (November). Premier is scheduled for grass, but up until about the Thursday of each week it can be re-scheduled depending on weather conditions. In which case Premiers may get re-scheduled onto astroturf and lower grade hackers will play on the grass (damp wicket, ground grubbers etc). By about December it is OK. Higher levels on grass, hackers on astroturf for the rest of the season.


This is just Wellington though, other cities have better climates and flatter land with more playing fields/pitches. Auckland can be a bit wet around November, but Christchurch and Napier etc have relatively dry climates.

 

[Burgey]

No. Barely rates a mention. And even less so amongst Pacific Islanders. There's been a few Maori players (e.g. Daryl Tuffey, Adam Parore), and there will be others who have some Maori blood, but by and large cricket is the domain of the white middle-class, with a (growing) smattering of people of Indian extraction.

Interesting. There certainly haven't been many indigineous players from Australia either. But I gather the Maori population is a much larger percentage of the total there than it is here (2006 census says 640K plus people ID'ed as being either Maori or of Maori descent). If the game barely rates with such a large proportion of a contry's population base, it does make it difficult.

That and the climate side of things as Jack says, makes it very difficult.

 

[Hurricane]

Yeah, that's true, although I did play with and against quite a few Maori/Pacific kids when I played in high school.

In all the teams I have been in since I was 8 years old I have had two maori team mates. That is in 31 years of cricket and I would have played with easily 100 people.

I think Maori parents push their kids into rugby. And to be honest with out Pacific Islanders and Maoris NZ would not be the force that is in rugby.

The only extra reason I will throw into the mix about why we are not a force in world cricket is our weather. Compared to Australia I believe we lose a few more saturdays in the season to rain. And I find that for myself - I spend the first 3-4 games of the year remembering how to play an inning - the middle 8 games playing ok - and the last 3-4 games improving possibly to a new level (at least when I was younger).

I think our younger batsman who get shorter seasons don't get as much development time. The only place you can learn is in the middle.

In terms of population - I think our 1980s team was almost as good if not better than our current team. And our population has grown by a million people since then so I suspect that our participation rates in cricket have gone down.
My team mates tell me that ten years ago there were 5 or 6 divisions of cricket below the one I am in. Now I am in the bottom two day grade.

 

[Meridio]

Anyway, agree with what most people have said about the reasons we generally struggle. IMO the grassroots pitch argument is the primary reason. As Heath etc. have said, pitches at club level are generally atrocious. The players that do succeed often are just the guys with a good eye who can hit a few runs when things go their way; there's a proliferation of block-bash batsman at club level that would never be able to step up to a higher level. It's not a good place to develop a technique.

In Wellington this year I think the first two games of the year were on artificial pitches, but often it's more than that, and besides, early season pitches are woeful, where 100 is often a very defendable score. First round on grass this year I think saw every team out for under 150, with a couple of teams all out for 20 and 30. It might be a bit different elsewhere in the country in places with better weather (e.g. Hawke's Bay), but equally in other areas it's worse. Where I grew up, we didn't get on to grass pitches until December some years, and below Premier club level many teams only played on artificial. In fact, the first time I can remember playing on a proper grass pitch was when I trialled for Under 15 reps.

I also agree with what Shane Bond says about talented players cruising through age grades. Definitely happens; I can think of plenty of people I've played with who had so much talent yet have amounted to nothing. They dominate at age grade level, because they're talented and most bowlers/batsmen can't keep up with them, then they get to a slightly higher level and get found out. There's a real big-fish-in-a-small-pond phenomenom at age group level in NZ imo.

 

[Mike5181]

No. Barely rates a mention. And even less so amongst Pacific Islanders. There's been a few Maori players (e.g. Daryl Tuffey, Adam Parore), and there will be others who have some Maori blood, but by and large cricket is the domain of the white middle-class, with a (growing) smattering of people of Indian extraction.

Yeah, it's quite disappointing and it's no different with the sizeable East Asian population in Auckland.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I'm sure a friend of mine from New Plymouth said that premier grade cricket there plays on astroturf the majority of the time. Never played there myself, so can't confirm.

Also, I slightly disagree about the lack of Maori participation. Certainly my club has produced a couple of first class quality Maori players (Dave Little, Henry Skipper) and a number of other guys that play or have played Pearce Cup for us are Maori. Also in the Hutt Valley at least, you have the Te Aroha Cricket Club who are mainly Maori and you have the Tokelau Hutt Valley Cricket Club too. Participation is lower, but certainly not non-existant. However, you do often see Pacific Islanders playing the pacific island version of cricket (the name of which escapes me) - and with some of the hand-eye coordination they show in that game, it's cricket's loss that they're not playing.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Also worth noting is the horrific situation in Wellington cricket where outfields cross over to a massive extent. This can end up with the dangerous situation where you're fielding at mid-off in one game, but that also happens to be point in another game. This is at its worst at Ian Galloway and considerably worse in Wellington City than in the outer suburbs.

 

[Mike5181]

I remember Kilikiti was fairly popular with the Pacific Islander population while I was at school.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I remember Kilikiti was fairly popular with the Pacific Islander population while I was at school.

That's the game. Yeah, I sometimes see groups of 30-40 playing in the one game together.

 

[Howsie]

Where I grew up, we didn't get on to grass pitches until December some years, and below Premier club level many teams only played on artificial. In fact, the first time I can remember playing on a proper grass pitch was when I trialled for Under 15 reps.

Yeah, I was much the same. Even with our school playing in the Waikato first division competition only two or three schools actually had proper grass wickets, everything else was played on artificial wickets. Basically if you weren't good enough to be playing rep cricket you just didn't get a run on a grass wicket very often. I'm not too sure about the rest of the country and school cricket but that in itself is a pretty big problem.

 

[straw man]

Slight aside but I think there's plenty of scope some clever person/company to develop a new and greatly improved artificial cricket pitch. NZ would benefit more than most countries from this. The pitch should have as many as possible of the following characteristics:

- semi-permiable with drainage to keep it as dry as possible
- balance between bat and ball - a little bit of seam movement, spin etc but not excessive
- is tuned so that the speed and height of bounce is about on par with a decent grass wicket
- is only as hard as your regular grass pitch (no concrete to damage bowlers' knees)
- is made of tough materials so wears very slowly and only has to replaced every 4 or 5 years
- causes wear to a cricket ball at about the same rate as an average grass wicket
- is fairly cheap to make and install

Obviously it's never going to be as good as earth and grass but given the climate there have to be better alternatives to your average astroturf wicket. You could even have different variations on this theme - eg. if your club has a couple of decent spinners you install the artificial pitch that takes a bit more turn.

I suspect we'll start to see this happen around the same time flying cars become common and we get the paperless office

 

[_Ed_]

Also worth noting is the horrific situation in Wellington cricket where outfields cross over to a massive extent. This can end up with the dangerous situation where you're fielding at mid-off in one game, but that also happens to be point in another game. This is at its worst at Ian Galloway and considerably worse in Wellington City than in the outer suburbs.

It's the same up here too - at least it certainly was when I was playing. Victoria Park and the Domain, particularly. And the high school sports fields, which aren't really all that big, sometimes had three or four cricket ovals on them. Ridiculous and dangerous.

 

[Flem274*]

I used to hate fielding in the outfield because we had the overlap of fields as well, and having your back to a seventeen year old facing a part timer on the next pitch over was not a pleasant experience.

As for the New Plymouth turf wicket situation - my high school has a grass pitch, and so does the other high school, but a decent number of club wickets are astroturf. I'm not sure on the exact numbers because I haven't been to a Taranaki club since I left high school. Taranaki climate must be a nightmare for groundsmen with the four seasons in one day.

Kids do get to play on the occasional grass wicket. I remember the Milo Cup final being played at Pukekura Park on the grass pitch for example.

I'd say Hawkes Bay, Bay of Plenty, Taupo region and the more arid parts of the South Island would be decent for club cricket in the summer.

 

[Hurricane]

As for the New Plymouth turf wicket situation - my high school has a grass pitch, and so does the other high school,.

Are there only two high schools?

 

[Flem274*]

Are there only two high schools?

Only two worth mentioning.

Well the other high school does have a cricket team, but they're not in Men's Premier Grade like NPBHS and FDMC.

FDMC were pretty h4x a few years ago. Pinga and Weston in the side once we moved up to Premiers and could pick non-students (i.e. staff members).

 

[wellAlbidarned]

You serious bro?

Simon Hickey won the young player of the year award for the second year running then dropped it for rugby. You can't play two sports once you reach any serious level.

Ages back I opened the batting once against him in junior cricket. Punched him through the covers for a single. Then promptly skied one off the leggie opening from the other end. Yeah cool story I know.