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***Official*** England in Sri Lanka 2012

Furball

Evil Scotsman
What interests me is that Duncan Fletcher used to say that every player needed to sweep, and would teach every English player to do it. Now they seem to be playing it more often than ever when he's not in charge. Whether Flower is promoting it, or it's just a case of the English seeing it as the easiest way to counter the subcontinent spinners due to a lack of confidence in their defence and natural strokemaking (which I think is a lot to do with it, ITBT), it's hard to say.
If you look at England's top 6, Strauss, Cook, Pietersen and Bell all spent their formative years in international cricket being coached by Fletcher. Maybe their technique's regressing to what seems familiar as they've been put under pressure.

I'm still convinced that England's problems are mental more than anything. The same batting lineup had absolutely no problems belting the same spinners when they visited England.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
I've already said as well that I also think it's mostly mental, but conditions have a lot to say about it as well. They obviously don't feel comfortable in trusting what the ball is going to do on these pitches in the subcontinent, and getting forward and playing through the ball, as illustrated by the preference a few have of going back or getting stuck on the crease rather than meeting the ball.
 

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
Who actually speaks like CWB? I'm sorry but he just comes off as the biggest pompous wanker, especially considering this is a cricket forum. It's like he has been transported from A Bit of Fry and Laurie or something...
It's called having a different view to the majority. Get over it.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
I'm still convinced that England's problems are mental more than anything. The same batting lineup had absolutely no problems belting the same spinners when they visited England.
Yeah but how often has a pitch spun in England on day 2 like it did yesterday for Herath, Swann and co.?

Not very often at all.

I agree its mental, but there are technical issues too. They go back at the wrong length.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I'm definitely beginning to think that these problems won't just magically go away as soon as England play a home series again, either. They're shot.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Yeah but how often has a pitch spun in England on day 2 like it did yesterday for Herath, Swann and co.?

Not very often at all.

I agree its mental, but there are technical issues too. They go back at the wrong length.
I didn't actually see any of yesterday's play so can't answer that question. Whilst it would be unusual to see a pitch in England offer massive turn, I think pitches in England are far more spin-friendly than people often give them credit for. Swann in the UAE seemed to struggle with adjusting his game away from what he would need to do in England; the batsmen have done the same.

As Jack said, I think part of it is not being as comfortable with the lack of pace and bounce in subcontinental pitches compared to what they're used to in England. Whilst I've brought up England's batsmen belting Asian spinners a few times, in England the spinners generally weren't used as an attacking option and didn't have the luxury of men round the bat creating pressure. England dealt with Ajmal and co comfortably enough in the ODI series because ODI fields are far more defensive.

After Perth there were questions raised about England's ability to perform in conditions that were completely alien to them, although that was to do with really quick pitches. How the batsmen have performed over the last 3 months means that it's definitely a concern.
 

Ruckus

International Captain
I'm definitely beginning to think that these problems won't just magically go away as soon as England play a home series again, either. They're shot.
Yeah you can't help but think that rather than a more permanent transition to being a better team, they will regress back to a lesser level. England's rise in the last year or two imo is simply down to a combination of their batsmen facing largely poor bowling, with one or two of their players in good form anyway, and a genuine improvement in their bowling. What they'll end up with in the longer term imo is a better England than before, but one that still lacks the star power (mainly batting) to keep them at the top for long.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm definitely beginning to think that these problems won't just magically go away as soon as England play a home series again, either. They're shot.
I dont think they are 'shot' exactly, am sure they will make runs against West Indies.

Strauss is a definite long term concern but Cook is not a problem, he has a good deal of early failures of late but we know what he is capable of.

Bell I am certain is principally a problem with the conditions and Ajmal in particular, looked a totally different player in the Pakistan series.

KP and Trott is where I am less sure, Trott in particular but I am sure KP will play at least a couple of excellent innings this summer.

Having said all that I expect a fair few of them to struggle against South Africa but good batsmen struggling against very good bowling is hardly a surprise.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I dont think they are 'shot' exactly, am sure they will make runs against West Indies.
By 'shot' I mean they're comfortably devoid of form, confidence and conviction. I don't think it's just the conditions that are at play here, even if it did start like that, so I don't think different conditions are going to fix the problem right away as such. They should beat the West Indies but I certainly don't expect them to all make hay with the bat as they did against Sri Lanka, India and Australia before the UAE tour. Even this series - or indeed this match - isn't gone yet but it's going to be on the back of really good bowling and a good innings here or there from one or two players if they're to do anything; don't think the batting is just going to just fix itself any time soon.
 
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NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Well if they don't they really shouldn't even be playing Test Cricket.

275 on a day 3 and 4 pitch against this attack isn't that improbable. Sure, Herath can cause problems, but I reckon if one of your gritty batsman Cook or Trott gets in, the total doesn't seem so hard.

The only real problem for England is that your a batsman short, as Patel is a blatant mug with the bat who makes Steve Smith appear as though he's Rahul ****ing Dravid.
 

Spikey

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strauss is looking pretty close to shot, but Trott and Cook will probably fire when they get back in England and the people behind them will follow
\

cue strauss ton
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
I think Strauss will look to play very positively in the second dig and will not make the same mistake as he did in the first innings.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
By 'shot' I mean they're comfortably devoid of form, confidence and conviction. I don't think it's just the conditions that are at play here, even if it did start like that, so I don't think different conditions are going to fix the problem right away as such. They should beat the West Indies but I certainly don't expect them to all make hay as they did against Sri Lanka, India and Australia before the UAE tour. Even this series - or indeed this match - isn't gone yet but it's going to be on the back of really good bowling and a good innings here or there from one or two players if they're to do anything; don't think the batting is just going to just fix itself any time soon.
awta
 

Burgey

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It's always the hope that gets you.

Must back ourselves to chase anything < 300. Must also learn how to play spin.
Heard those very words at a funeral I went to the other week..

"The despair we can cope with. It's the hope that gets you".
 

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