***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2012

[Howsie]

Pitch if very flat and it's nearly the end of day three. Perhaps you're being a bit unfair to Nicol.

Chris Martin aside, Rob Nicol has been the worst player to walk out onto the middle with bat in hand this series.

 

[Prince EWS]

Chris Martin aside, Rob Nicol has been the worst player to walk out onto the middle with bat in hand this series.

Harsh on Martin; he's definitely a better player than Nicol.

[/pedantic]

 

[Hurricane]

Chris Martin aside, Rob Nicol has been the worst player to walk out onto the middle with bat in hand this series.

He may have lacked in talent/technique. But he was gutsy and took some blows on the body rather than giving his wicket up.

 

[Bahnz]

He may have lacked in talent/technique. But he was gutsy and took some blows on the body rather than giving his wicket up.

That is, until he spooned a juicy full toss to mid on.

 

[Howsie]

He may have lacked in talent/technique. But he was gutsy and took some blows on the body rather than giving his wicket up.

Probably not the word many people will use to describe Rob Nicol I'd imagine

 

[straw man]

Hrmm, Doull writes in the paper:

For starters, New Zealand Cricket bosses need to sort out the future of current coach Wright.

It's the No 1 issue at present and I have serious doubts about whether he even wants to stay.

From what I'm hearing, he's even been telling the players of late that this test in Wellington could be his last.

A wee bit concerning....

 

[Hurricane]

^Bring back Andy Moles IMHO he claims he was misunderstood.

 

[_Ed_]

^Bring back Andy Moles IMHO he claims he was misunderstood.

 

[Flem274*]

Well...ffs, what we need more than anything is a coach who sticks around for a while.

 

[Mike5181]

Hrmm, Doull writes in the paper:



A wee bit concerning....

Far out does Doull sound pissed off or what? Where has this John Wright thing suddenly come from?

As we all know, to win a test match you need to take 20 wickets and New Zealand was always going to fare better with four quicks.

I know this might sound harsh, but I believe Wright should have left Brownlie out of the side or, if he was so desperate to bolster his batting lineup, dropped Vettori.

I know Straw Man might have suggested something similar earlier in the thread but how is everyone (Doull, McMillan, Smith etc) missing Guptill in all of this selection-wise? Dropping Vettori based on his bowling is fine but you'd be ignoring the fact that he's averaged close to fourty with the bat against non-minnows in the last five years. It's just as ridiculous to exclude Brownlie with the start he's had to his first class and test careers. He wants McCullum opening which is fair enough and now that Flynn looks fairly competent albeit only in one innings but if he can score runs against this attack he can do better than averaging low 20s like MG is. If Guptill scores a century in this innings fine leave him in there but if he gets out for **** all time to move McCullum back into the openers role.

Next test:

1.Brendon McCullum
2.Daniel Flynn
3.Kane Williamson
4.Ross Taylor (c)
5.Dean Brownlie
6.Daniel Vettori
7.Kruger Van Wyk+
8.Neil Wagner/Trent Boult
9.Doug Bracewell
10.Mark Gillespie
11.Chris Martin

 

[Flem274*]

Willing to let Guptill have a crack in this test before dropping him for the next tbh. I mean, I would have dropped him ages ago, but since he's here if he tons up against this world class attack then fair play. We can't assess for the Windies until the test is over and we can look performances, team balance and retirements.

edit: Martin isn't necessarily a lock to retire either. Hasn't been mentioned at all this test match and with the form he's in, why go?

 

[Mike5181]

Willing to let Guptill have a crack in this test before dropping him for the next tbh. I mean, I would have dropped him ages ago, but since he's here if he tons up against this world class attack then fair play. We can't assess for the Windies until the test is over and we can look performances, team balance and retirements.

Yeah, I'll concede he's batted reasonably well in this innings so far. He still has a lot to prove though. I just can't understand how the commentators and the NZ public can justify dropping a guy who averages 40 against non-minnows in a time period of around half a decade when there's a guy who is averaging in the low 20s.

edit: Martin isn't necessarily a lock to retire either. Hasn't been mentioned at all this test match and with the form he's in, why go?

Haha yeah. I left him off by accident.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah, I'll concede he's batted reasonably well in this innings so far. He still has a lot to prove though. I just can't understand how the commentators and the NZ public can justify dropping a guy who averages 40 against non-minnows in a time period of around half a decade when there's a guy who is averaging in the low 20s.

Because Martin Guptill is just out of form you know, He was in form before.*

*completely coincidentally when minnows were here.

But as I said, if he makes a big score here then I can't knock him for it, and he will definitely play the next test if he does.

 

[_Ed_]

And the talent is so obviously there with Guptill. I think there's a general opinion that he's on the verge of breaking through and becoming awesome.

And I do think he will do that at some stage - it's just a matter of whether he needs to go back to FC level for a while first.

 

[Mike5181]

I wonder what got John Wright all upset if Doull's correct.

 

[Flem274*]

The batsmen continuing to repeat the same mistakes over and over probably.

 

[Prince EWS]

You can just see it happening, though. Flynn and Guptill, the two most droppable batsmen in the side, are going to hit 70 odd each here. No-one else will score any runs and New Zealand will lose, but Guptill and Flynn will cement their places for their next Test, and you can't really drop any of the other batsmen, so you'll be stuck with a three-man attack again.

 

[thierry henry]

And the talent is so obviously there with Guptill. I think there's a general opinion that he's on the verge of breaking through and becoming awesome.

And I do think he will do that at some stage - it's just a matter of whether he needs to go back to FC level for a while first.

Questionable imo. I think he fails precisely because he's just not that good. His technique sets him up to play certain shots but restricts him from playing others. If you bowl short of a length outside off he has no shots.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Nah, there's simply not enough time. Even if we bat really well tomorrow, it'll take us all day just to get close enough to SA to put them back in, which means we'd have to bowl them out in 40 or 50 overs on day 5. Even without Kallis and Amla, that just isn't going to happen, especially with Dan bowling the way he is.

As I keep saying South Africa's batting is very top heavy. Everyone has a chance of getting smacked for a 500+ when Smith, Kallis etc. get set and just grind the bowling down, giving away nothing. But everyone can also knock them over cheaply if you get the key guys out early. South Africa here are missing a big chunk of their batting. They basically have Smith and AB de Villiers. Even AB has question marks over his temperament in pressure situations. The rest are ****e or bottlers, or both. New Zealand have already knocked South Africa's top order over cheaply this series, twice and it was stronger then. SA's batting lineup without Amla is about as strong as NZ's - ie not very.

Granted NZ make Rudolph and Virus look like top class batsmen. But they're not. NZ need to accelerate once or if they're past the follow-on mark - even if it means getting bowled out for 300-350 instead of 400. There are still 194 overs left in this game. All results are possible, South Africa could still make another stupid declaration and give NZ an outside chance. Or NZ could play well and make South Africa implode as they're famous for.

Mind if Vettori bowls the 14th over and 12th over of the new ball again you lot deserve to watch a tedious draw.

 

[Prince EWS]

Questionable imo. I think he fails precisely because he's just not that good. His technique sets him up to play certain shots but restricts him from playing others. If you bowl short of a length outside off he has no shots.

He's such an unNZ-like batsman. I think that's why a lot of New Zealanders are enamoured with him; his technique possesses qualities that are usually absent from New Zealand's sub-par openers (he moves his feet early to give himself time, covers his off-stump, hits straight, times the ball well, looks elegant etc) so it almost seems like an indication of class, but he's carved that game out of a base that cuts himself off in other areas. Even the most technically unequipped New Zealand top order shallums usually have a fearsome cut shot when the ball is short and wide, for example.