Dravid or Gavaskar?

[Burgey]

I see.

 

[Prince EWS]

Ah of course, forgot that!

His longevity won't be finalised until the end of this year either; depends on how many Tests whoever plays the most Tests for India this year plays.

 

[weldone]

His longevity won't be finalised until the end of this year either; depends on how many Tests whoever plays the most Tests for India this year plays.

Yes of course.

 

[ankitj]

Can you revise your ranking system such that Gavaskar finishes in top 3. It will be fun to see Burgey's reaction to that.

 

[ankitj]

And while we are at it, why don't you post your full list? Or is it work in progress?

 

[weldone]

Can you revise your ranking system such that Gavaskar finishes in top 3. It will be fun to see Burgey's reaction to that.

Haha, no that's practically not possible using my method.

 

[weldone]

And while we are at it, why don't you post your full list? Or is it work in progress?

The thing is that it is always 'work in progress' for the current players and the players who retired within the last 2 years by the definition of it.

I want to publish the bowlers' list first - not sure how to paste 480 rows of data in the most presentable format.

 

[Burgey]

Can you revise your ranking system such that Gavaskar finishes in top 3. It will be fun to see Burgey's reaction to that.

I'd laugh. It's straning credulity now.

 

[Jono]

As a test batsman Gavaskar is pretty highly rated though. Made Benaud's XI, one of the greatest openers ever etc.

7 (and definitely 3) are perhaps too high a ranking for him in an all-time test batsmen list, but he wouldn't be too far off that would he?

What's your view (and rough ranking) on him Burgey? And I would think you'd know him best, what you being an old grumpy **** and Gavaskar also being an old grumpy ****.

 

[smash84]

And I would think you'd know him best, what you being an old grumpy **** and Gavaskar also being an old grumpy ****.

 

[Burgey]

As a test batsman Gavaskar is pretty highly rated though. Made Benaud's XI, one of the greatest openers ever etc.

7 (and definitely 3) are perhaps too high a ranking for him in an all-time test batsmen list, but he wouldn't be too far off that would he?

What's your view (and rough ranking) on him Burgey? And I would think you'd know him best, what you being an old grumpy **** and Gavaskar also being an old grumpy ****.

Lol, no. I've I think prefaced my remarks about him in the past by saying what I saw of him was limited to him playing here for the most part, because there simply was not the widespread coverage of overseas cricket which there is today.

Now, I am not privy to Weldone's ranking system, so there may well be things which are taken into account which put him at the level he is. I would say Gavaskar is one of the best opening batsmen since I've been watching, he may even be the best. The ones I've seen who generally rate a mention in peoples' lists of the great ones, be it of their time or all time, would be (in no set order)

Gavaskar
Barry Richards
Greenidge
Boycott
Gooch
Hayden
Sehwag
Anwar
Slater
Taylor
Kirsten

And I have likely omitted others.

Gavaskar would be in the very top echelon of those players, for certain. The latter names on there were more the best or better openers of their playing times rather than serious contenders for all time or even modern era openers I guess.

So, when I say I don't think he's in the top ten batsmen (or test batsmen) of all time, I'm not really saying he's a dud by any stretch. Again, it depends which criteria you place on these things, and so even though people try to definitively say X> Y on some statistical basis, that still has its problems depending upon the criteria you adopt (except Bradman I suppose, who had longevity, averaged more and scored more tons/ innings than anyone).

I think Gavaskar was a great player. I think he had problems when he toured here which no doubt effects my view of him, just as Ponting's shortcomings in India are seen as an impediment to his claims to greatness.

 

[sachin200]

Lol, no. I've I think prefaced my remarks about him in the past by saying what I saw of him was limited to him playing here for the most part, because there simply was not the widespread coverage of overseas cricket which there is today.

Now, I am not privy to Weldone's ranking system, so there may well be things which are taken into account which put him at the level he is. I would say Gavaskar is one of the best opening batsmen since I've been watching, he may even be the best. The ones I've seen who generally rate a mention in peoples' lists of the great ones, be it of their time or all time, would be (in no set order)

Gavaskar
Barry Richards
Greenidge
Boycott
Gooch
Hayden
Sehwag
Anwar
Slater
Taylor
Kirsten

And I have likely omitted others.

Gavaskar would be in the very top echelon of those players, for certain. The latter names on there were more the best or better openers of their playing times rather than serious contenders for all time or even modern era openers I guess.

So, when I say I don't think he's in the top ten batsmen (or test batsmen) of all time, I'm not really saying he's a dud by any stretch. Again, it depends which criteria you place on these things, and so even though people try to definitively say X> Y on some statistical basis, that still has its problems depending upon the criteria you adopt (except Bradman I suppose, who had longevity, averaged more and scored more tons/ innings than anyone).

I think Gavaskar was a great player. I think he had problems when he toured here which no doubt effects my view of him, just as Ponting's shortcomings in India are seen as an impediment to his claims to greatness.

i think he is the only overseas batsman to score centuries in all major test grounds in Australia (except hobart where he didn't play)

 

[Burgey]

i think he is the only overseas batsman to score centuries in all major test grounds in Australia (except hobart where he didn't play)

Yeah but who did he score them against?

 

[Furball]

Cook will share that record when he tons up at the MCG in 2013.

 

[smash84]

Cook will share that record when he tons up at the MCG in 2013.

and who has cook scored against?

 

[sachin200]

Yeah but who did he score them against?

You can only play against players available

 

[Burgey]

You can only play against players available

That's what I said when Ponting scored all those runs this summer

IIRC Gavaskar toured as part of the World XI under Sobers, in the first year of WSC, in 1980-81 and in 85-86.

The attack in 77 was pretty weak, Thommo (post shoulder surgery) aside. The 85-86 attack was laughable.

 

[smash84]

was the 85-86 attack as bad as the one for Ashes 2011?

Or was the bowling coaching as bad?

 

[Burgey]

was the 85-86 attack as bad as the one for Ashes 2011?

Or was the bowling coaching as bad?

No it was terrible. The 2011 Ashes attack wasn't juiced up, peeling the ball with bottle tops to get it reverse swing or taking cash to bowl no balls, so they didn't have that excuse. They bowled crap though.

Doing the best I can to recall, Merv Hughes and Bruce Reid debuted. Took Hughes three tests to take a wicket. The great Dave Gilbert had a game, and there may have been some
Dodemaide or Simon Davis action there as well. Chris Matthews may have debuted. The spin was provided by Greg Matthews, and probably Dutchy Holland, Murray Bennett or Sounda Sleep. It's was almost as bad an attack as Zaheer, Ishant, Nostrils and Ashwin.

 

[smash84]

No it was terrible. The 2011 Ashes attack wasn't juiced up, peeling the ball with bottle tops to get it reverse swing or taking cash to bowl no balls, so they didn't have that excuse. They bowled crap though.

Oh so you mean the attacks prior to 2011 Ashes were all doing that