Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Hard to understand why people were getting out to those balls.
Unless he was building up the pressure before hand with consistent accuracy.
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*** Official New Zealand Domestic Cricket 2011/2012 ***
- Thread starter Howsie
- Start date
Unless he was building up the pressure before hand with consistent accuracy.
Flem274*
123/5
Lol.
The **** just took 8/23, and everyone is worried he isn't quick.
In marked contrast, two years ago knee jerk speed gun watchers wanted the same bowler who took his wickets at something like 47 a piece fast tracked into the test side because he hit the magical 140kph bracket.
Give him some credit ffs. I'm on record as not a fan, but you don't fluke eight ****ing wickets for 23 ****ing runs.
The **** just took 8/23, and everyone is worried he isn't quick.
In marked contrast, two years ago knee jerk speed gun watchers wanted the same bowler who took his wickets at something like 47 a piece fast tracked into the test side because he hit the magical 140kph bracket.
Give him some credit ffs. I'm on record as not a fan, but you don't fluke eight ****ing wickets for 23 ****ing runs.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
I can't tell how quick he is from the footage - I was just watching the movement of the ball and people seemed to be getting out because of his left armers angle more than anything as opposed to seam movement. It just seemed odd. Like I said maybe he was building pressure through his other deliveries. It is extremely hard to judge just by watching the wickets how someone has bowled.
Flem274*
123/5
Only two guys really threw it away. It's impossible to get any context of how a bowler sets a batsman up with highlights of only the wickets, but there were a lot of guys who covered their off stump with their footwork only to nick balls in the corridor, so either
A) Otago batsmen have no idea where their off stump is
B) Maybe he's been setting them up with deliveries attacking off and throwing one just outside in the channel to see if they nick it.
One guy in particular seemed to find the length very awkward in the ball that got him. Very uncertain footwork, similar to the knot Kallis tied himself in against Martin in the test just gone. McClenaghan is a tall bloke so maybe it was the bounce plus the length that undid him.
What I'm saying is, when you guys wonder why Otago are nicking to a fast medium bowler putting it outside off, you don't know what he was bowling between the wickets.
8/23 and Colin Maiden Park is nothing to be sniffed at. I would have admitted it even in 2009. It doesn't mean he's going to smoke South Africa or go on to be a domestic hero (still struggled for consistency this season), but it must have been a gun spell.
Flem274*
123/5
Post reported.
Flem274*
123/5
Domestic Opener Watch
GH Worker: 8 matches, 561 @ 40.07, 1 & 3
JM Brodie: 7 matches, 498 @ 41.50, 2 & 1
SJ Murdoch: 7 matches, 481 @ 43.72, 2 & 3
BS Wilson: 8 matches, 458 @ 32.71, 0 & 5
JM How: 8 matches, 454 @ 41.27, 1 & 1
PJ Ingram: 3 matches, 364 @ 60.66, 1 & 2
BJ Watling: 4 matches, 345 @ 86.25, 1 & 3
MHW Papps: 8 matches, 343 @ 24.50, 1 & 2
JA Raval: 5 matches, 325 @ 40.62, 1 & 1
HD Rutherford: 2 matches, 268 @ 67.00, 2 & 0
TG McIntosh: 7 matches, 182 @ 14.00, 1 & 0
Aaron Redmond has had such a howler he didn't make the "most runs" list.
GH Worker: 8 matches, 561 @ 40.07, 1 & 3
JM Brodie: 7 matches, 498 @ 41.50, 2 & 1
SJ Murdoch: 7 matches, 481 @ 43.72, 2 & 3
BS Wilson: 8 matches, 458 @ 32.71, 0 & 5
JM How: 8 matches, 454 @ 41.27, 1 & 1
PJ Ingram: 3 matches, 364 @ 60.66, 1 & 2
BJ Watling: 4 matches, 345 @ 86.25, 1 & 3
MHW Papps: 8 matches, 343 @ 24.50, 1 & 2
JA Raval: 5 matches, 325 @ 40.62, 1 & 1
HD Rutherford: 2 matches, 268 @ 67.00, 2 & 0
TG McIntosh: 7 matches, 182 @ 14.00, 1 & 0
Aaron Redmond has had such a howler he didn't make the "most runs" list.
Howsie
International Captain
Claim that
It's a shame Brad Wilson's had such a stinker of a season, could quite easily of found himself close to the test squad if he'd backed up his form of the last two years this season.
Kippax
Cricketer Of The Year
FWIW, you can tell from the mowing pattern Wagner's 1st slip is maybe a yard or two closer than McClenaghan's 1st slip -
http://nzcpooch.blob.core.windows.net/86bd9a43-70f8-4b58-8932-6e78f663ef67/2_001_03.mp4
http://nzcpooch.blob.core.windows.net/86bd9a43-70f8-4b58-8932-6e78f663ef67/2_003_05.mp4 (poor!)
http://nzcpooch.blob.core.windows.net/86bd9a43-70f8-4b58-8932-6e78f663ef67/2_001_03.mp4
http://nzcpooch.blob.core.windows.net/86bd9a43-70f8-4b58-8932-6e78f663ef67/2_003_05.mp4 (poor!)
lockton2skipper
U19 Debutant
yes but brent arnel type medium pacers dont do a lot at test level.
Mixmasterreece
U19 Debutant
Yeah because picking up 5fers in domestic cricket and bowling at 120kph really worked wonders in the international arena for Lance Hamilton & Michael Mason.
Flem274*
123/5
With their whole three chances between them? Did Hamilton even play a test?
Pace isn't everything. Look at Philander. Look at Zaheer. If you want two all time great examples, look at McGrath and Pollock.
A bowler has just taken 8/23, and all you care about is his pace when considering him for international selection? **** me dead, the Mitchell McClenaghan story is starting to bring home everything that is wrong with New Zealand cricket.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Mason should've played more Tests. Maybe not earlier in his career, but more recently.
Mixmasterreece
U19 Debutant
I've reviewed those wickets and im not impressed. Looks to me like half decent line & length but shoddy nz domestic batting for the most part. Most NZ trundlers will never have the control and skill that your examples (khan, pollock etc) exhibited. So being able to hurry a batsmen up with a little extra pace is a definite plus.
But Im sorry for having an opinion sir. I can see that the mere mention of pace gives you substantial butt hurt.
I obviously haven't been steering at my CD tradesman hypno-circle enough of late. Lets give it another go.
That's better, I agree - If given more chances, Lance 'the real deal' Hamilton, and Michael 'Poor man's Glen Mcgrath', would have been international sensations. Same goes for Peter 'Club cricket legend' Ingram.
Now if only Joey Yovich would move to CD you'd have another domestic trundler/black caps opening bowler solution to spank it over.
Mixmasterreece
U19 Debutant
I agree, he was ****ing awesome.
Flem274*
123/5
You can write off 125-130kph bowlers all you like, but the reality is, if they're getting the most wickets then they are the best we have. Adam Milne's 150kph deliveries that don't take wickets in the Plunket Shield against "shoddy domestic batsmen" are not going to suddenly make him a better bowler than a Michael Mason or a Brent Arnel at the international level, because he can't even get a James Marshall or Aaron Redmond out. Before you mention Doug Bracewell (who bowls in the low 130s most of the time btw), go check out his emerging players tournament performances. He turned the corner before international selection, not because of it.I've reviewed those wickets and im not impressed. Looks to me like half decent line & length but shoddy nz domestic batting for the most part. Most NZ trundlers will never have the control and skill that your examples (khan, pollock etc) exhibited. So being able to hurry a batsmen up with a little extra pace is a definite plus.
But Im sorry for having an opinion sir. I can see that the mere mention of pace gives you substantial butt hurt.
I obviously haven't been steering at my CD tradesman hypno-circle enough of late. Lets give it another go.
That's better, I agree - If given more chances, Lance 'the real deal' Hamilton, and Michael 'Poor man's Glen Mcgrath', would have been international sensations. Same goes for Peter 'Club cricket legend' Ingram.
Now if only Joey Yovich would move to CD you'd have another domestic trundler/black caps opening bowler solution to spank it over.
The thing is, whining about pace isn't even the worst part of the analysis going on here. Someone has just taken 8/23 on the Auckland motorway, and from watching the highlights you have concluded it was a rubbish haul, and you conclude this having never seen the deliveries in between. You don't know what the bloke was bowling to set them up to play those shots. If the ball isn't moving, and you're not bowling with extreme pace, you need to probe in the channel or hit them in the head enough times to push them back in the crease for the full ball. It doesn't look spectacular, but it works, especially in this day and age where batsmen have ****ty patience and the introduction of helmets has lessened the quality of techniques against the short ball. McGrath made a career out of it. Speaking of which, how do you know a New Zealand medium fast bowler can't be a good international bowler just because of his nationality? That's a ridiculous argument, and typical from someone like you who judges players on how they look, not what they achieve.
Watching that video, one guy in particular seemed to have no idea whether to play forward or back, which might mean the ball either bounced differently to what he expected and/or McClenaghan put it on the perfect length to make him uncertain. A lot of guys were nicking just outside off, so either they are ******** (likely) or they had no idea where the off stump was in relation to the ball (also likely). The left arm angle to the right hander also helps. That's just good professional bowling on a flat pitch, because retardedness or threatening off stump is about the only way you're going to get a batsman out in unfavourable conditions.
If he delivered those deliveries at 140kph we wouldn't even be having this argument. I'd be arguing against people screaming for his inclusion in the test side after one outstanding performance.
For the majority of his career I think McClenaghan has been a passenger, but the other day he delivered one of the best hauls in Plunket Shield history on one of the traditionally flattest pitches in the country. Does he not deserve at least a bit of recognition? Stop making me defend him ffs. I'm meant to be the irrational hater here.
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Immenso
International Vice-Captain
Have you reviewed his deliveries leading up to the wickets? or just the wickets out of context?
I was wondering if he was setting them up by swinging it back in and then pushing them across with the angle and getting the edges. But he wasn't swinging it much, half his wickets were lefthanders anyway. He caused problems and got his wickets mostly with deliveries which had extra bounce.
Flem274*
123/5
He doesn't even really have great numbers this year in the Shield iirc, and even in the one dayers he varied from smoking it to getting smoked without much in between. It's been just the last two games or so that he's clicked.
Even if he does continue this run (big if looking at his career so far), he has a lot to do to get past Boult, Wagner and probably McKay as well in my books. He could be a bit fortunate Wheeler is injured as well.
Immenso
International Vice-Captain
Hamilton retain the Hawke Cup
2 of the guys playing in this latest challenge match are involved are in the U19 squad for the tournament later this year and then presumably the U19 world cup. Duffy and Walker (I presume Josef Walker and Joe Walker are the same people), both had good matches but sounds like Walker was quite outstanding.
Cricket | Hamilton spin magic to rule Hawke Cup | Stuff.co.nz
Good experience for these young guys to play some toughish 3 day cricket. Plus another U19 squad member (Neynens) played for Nelson in the previous challenge. It's a good comp I reckon.
2 of the guys playing in this latest challenge match are involved are in the U19 squad for the tournament later this year and then presumably the U19 world cup. Duffy and Walker (I presume Josef Walker and Joe Walker are the same people), both had good matches but sounds like Walker was quite outstanding.
Cricket | Hamilton spin magic to rule Hawke Cup | Stuff.co.nz
Good experience for these young guys to play some toughish 3 day cricket. Plus another U19 squad member (Neynens) played for Nelson in the previous challenge. It's a good comp I reckon.