*** Official New Zealand Domestic Cricket 2011/2012 ***

[wellAlbidarned]

Southee is too good for NZ domestic cricket and lights it up consistently there.

Doesn't mean he's automatically good enough for internationals. Definitely time to give someone else a go.

 

[SteveNZ]

He was going to go on a mid-season transfer to Wellington, with match payments and (I think) a part-time contract but Hopkins convinced him there would be opportunities up there and he was playing for *insert outstanding club here* previous to that after going through his surgery rehab.

Bevan Small got a contract ahead of him in the off-season despite not having played a game and also being injured, so he told them to jog on. Given the Ford Trophy final goings-on, you'd argue that worked out okay for them..

Doesn't matter there's noone shouting out for Southee's place - he isn't warranting it. He's producing nothing, at least bring in someone who may produce something more than nothing whether that is a batting all-rounder or anyone else.

Some guy got a 4-for today and averages 91 with the bat this season. I'd go him.

 

[Hurricane]

Doesn't mean he's automatically good enough for internationals. Definitely time to give someone else a go.

What was he player of the tournament for the World U19s or something. His pedigree is such that he deserves some patience. Whether his time has run out I can't say but he deserves a decent go.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

What was he player of the tournament for the World U19s or something. His pedigree is such that he deserves some patience. Whether his time has run out I can't say but he deserves a decent go.

Patience. **** off. He's been sub-par in every test this summer excepting a second innings spell at Hobart. His record is atrocious. I was willing to give him some patience up until the Zimbabwe test (notwithstanding his batting attitude at Hobart which greatly pissed me off) but to suggest Southee hasn't been afforded patience is utter bull. He's been afforded much greater patience than pretty much any player in recent times. I'd take Jesse Ryder as a bowler over him right now, and Jesse's pretty much guaranteed to breakdown in his first over. Yes, I'm indulging in hyperbole and I still think Southee will come back, but he does not deserve to be playing in this form and I would take Gillespie, Aldridge, Adams (****, I wish) and probably even some untried guy over him (if it wasn't for the risk being taken on Boult too). Gah.

 

[SteveNZ]

Fair comment. He averages 44 in four seasons of Test cricket, hasn't taken a 5-for since his debut and I cannot remember a meaningful contribution from him - Hobart yes but that was 2-for on a very sporting wicket.

 

[Howsie]

Arnel and Aldridge aren't killing it atm. Not the best time, though I'd take either over Southee.

Ideally I'd keep Southee, but he's not taking wickets and he's not even scoring lower order runs. With him in the side we're effectively playing with ten men. Andy Ellis would have been more useful.

Southee getting smoked for two boundaries in a row then bowling a dot ball, picking the ball up and threatening to fire it at the batsman today sums him up. All show, no go.

Send him to County Cricket and give another good prospect who has wickets in the bank an opportunity imo.

Both of them are averaging 22 with the ball this season which would suggest they're both in some sort of form. I wouldn't select either of them like I said earlier but Henry would be well behind them in my books.

As for Southee I agree, a county stint may just be the tonic he needs. I don't know if it would help him become a better bowler as such but it could help him iron out a few kinks in his action. He isn't swinging the ball as well as he usually does and when he does it's from the hand. Too much limited overs cricket and not enough four day stuff IMO. It's just a shame I guess that he has no desire to actually play county cricket (the proper stuff anyway).

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I fear that Southee rates himself as a one-day/20:20 bowler and doesn't really care much for the Tests/First Class game. It would explain a lot, tbh.

 

[Howsie]

Fair comment. He averages 44 in four seasons of Test cricket, hasn't taken a 5-for since his debut and I cannot remember a meaningful contribution from him - Hobart yes but that was 2-for on a very sporting wicket.

V Australia @ Seddon a couple of years ago. Took 4fer and helped skittle Australia for bugger all on a lifeless deck. Very similar game to the one going on at the moment actually.

 

[Flem274*]

Regardless of who we pick or if we think they're better or worse than Southee, the thing I can't go past is Southee's action is getting progressively worse and worse. Correcting his action is not something he will get much time for in international cricket.

He's been messed around with since he started. First he needed to get faster, so they worked on that. Then he needed to get fitter, so they worked on that. Then he needed to be more accurate, so they worked on that. Then came death bowling, yorkers, reverse swing and crap.

Now he's like a mutant half baked version of everything, with new bad habits creeping in. He's one third back of a length outside off bowler, one third pitch it up swing bowler, and one third odi death bowler.

And it's made him 100% ****. He bowls slightly too short, slightly too wide. ****s to stop trying to coach him and let him return to 2008 kthnx.

 

[SteveNZ]

V Australia @ Seddon a couple of years ago. Took 4fer and helped skittle Australia for bugger all on a lifeless deck. Very similar game to the one going on at the moment actually.

I recall that, I think I had a bowl cut and wore Origin jeans at that stage. A long time ago.

I don't like talking about actions too much as if I knew it all I'd be wearing Damien Wright's pants but he is a lot more round-arm than he was earlier in his career. He's either going to swing it from the hand, and that doesn't scare too many good batsmen, or not swing it at all. Seems to me from observation today it could be a run-up issue as well - doesn't build momentum in the last few strides and as a result isn't able to load up in a strong position over the top.

Found it interesting that Bracewell said in an interview this evening that his run-up issues were purely up to him, not Wright or the sprint coach. Maybe just an off the cuff comment to not pass blame.

 

[SteveNZ]

As for Southee I agree, a county stint may just be the tonic he needs. I don't know if it would help him become a better bowler as such but it could help him iron out a few kinks in his action. He isn't swinging the ball as well as he usually does and when he does it's from the hand. Too much limited overs cricket and not enough four day stuff IMO. It's just a shame I guess that he has no desire to actually play county cricket (the proper stuff anyway).

If he worked on something before he went to country cricket and put it in practice there, I'd agree. But yeah, players aren't interested in four-day county stints now if they are internationally established. And to be fair the schedule doesn't allow it - although Guptill is an exception and should be praised for his loyalty/dedication to Derby.

 

[Athlai]

Guppy looks like he might be an international player now in my eyes. Obviously not going to be an all time great or anything but just seems like he is comfortable with his game and will do a job for NZ from now on.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Patience. **** off. He's been sub-par in every test this summer excepting a second innings spell at Hobart. His record is atrocious. I was willing to give him some patience up until the Zimbabwe test (notwithstanding his batting attitude at Hobart which greatly pissed me off) but to suggest Southee hasn't been afforded patience is utter bull. He's been afforded much greater patience than pretty much any player in recent times. I'd take Jesse Ryder as a bowler over him right now, and Jesse's pretty much guaranteed to breakdown in his first over. Yes, I'm indulging in hyperbole and I still think Southee will come back, but he does not deserve to be playing in this form and I would take Gillespie, Aldridge, Adams (****, I wish) and probably even some untried guy over him (if it wasn't for the risk being taken on Boult too). Gah.

This, the exact words taken from my head.

 

[Mike5181]

If we do drop him it looks like the selectors prefer Brent Arnel to any of the other first class guns at this stage. Personally I would pick Mark Gillespie but that's because I've always semi-rated the guy.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

not to mention Gillespie hasn't had any chances at international level as recently as Arnel.

 

[Flem274*]

Gillespie's just got back in form. I don't think he was anywhere near as bad as is sometimes made out (has a 5fer against this lot), but he's probably not the best choice atm.

 

[straw man]

Guppy looks like he might be an international player now in my eyes. Obviously not going to be an all time great or anything but just seems like he is comfortable with his game and will do a job for NZ from now on.

At least with Guptill he has developed his game somewhat (remember when he would hook compulsively and get caught at fine leg every second innings). Plus his fielding is amazing and he is always on the ball. As long as there is noone else who is definitively a better opening batsman I'm content to have him in the test side.

 

[SteveNZ]

Picking Arnel would be like breaking up with a hot girl you thought was going to be the one, put out early and made you even more into her but then she went into a stage where she'd go there on birthdays and special occasions but things basically dried up. You kept the faith, you hoped the spark was still there, convinced yourself of it and she showed promise at one-off events but really it was dying a death. So you went back to your ex, who you left in the first place and wouldn't give much other than a starfish, but starfish is better than no fish.

And that's how the Arnel selection shakes down at 2:30am.

 

[Days of Grace]

Buck-toothed Arnel should be nowhere near the test team. The very definition of a NZ domestic, redneck medium-pacer.

Do I have any other suggestions except for going back to 3 seamers + Ellis/Franklin and waiting for Wagner to qualify? No, I do not.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Buck-toothed Arnel should be nowhere near the test team. The very definition of a NZ domestic, redneck medium-pacer.

Do I have any other suggestions except for going back to 3 seamers + Ellis/Franklin and waiting for Wagner to qualify? No, I do not.

Eh? I agree he's a pretty average bowler, but I'll take an average one over a currently **** one (Southee). What's with all the personal attacks on Arnel anwyay?