vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Don't see how you could rate Swann before Vettori, ITBT.
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***Official*** Pakistan and England in UAE
- Thread starter Agent Nationaux
- Start date
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Swann is under-rated because he doesn't play much domestic T20 cricket for Notts, doesn't have an IPL contract and doesn't play in the Champions League.
Both are top quality T20 bowlers, I'd have both in my World XI without even thinking about it.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Great post.
Howe_zat
Audio File
I think his days are numbered if he's not opening, since Buttler is clearly better down the order than an out-of-position Kes. If England are willing to persist with him as a one-day opener, he'll be reasonably safe. Since that's now unlikely thanks to the new Cook-KP partnership, he won't have long.
As much as I like Bairstow in the long form, I think it'll take him a while yet to mature into the kind of versatile batsman you need in an ODI middle order. Buttler most would rather have out in the field rather than keeping. So that may well buy Keiswetter some time, but I don't think it'll be long before either Bairstow improves or someone else emerges. Personally, I'd even rather have Prior come in at #6 right now.
In T20, he'll feel safer as there's less competition for his opening spot, as the bigwigs apparently don't feel Cook can adapt his game to the shortest form. Fallacious if you ask me - people said that about ODIs too, presumably after having not seen Cook play a limited overs innings for three years. Anyway, even if it isn't Cook (perhaps Hales, Davies, or more likely Roy in a year or two), I think the now well exposed technical flaws Keiswetter possesses will eventually become too hard to ignore.
tl;dr - He has half-decent reasons to hold his spot for now, but I don't think he's good enough in general.
As much as I like Bairstow in the long form, I think it'll take him a while yet to mature into the kind of versatile batsman you need in an ODI middle order. Buttler most would rather have out in the field rather than keeping. So that may well buy Keiswetter some time, but I don't think it'll be long before either Bairstow improves or someone else emerges. Personally, I'd even rather have Prior come in at #6 right now.
In T20, he'll feel safer as there's less competition for his opening spot, as the bigwigs apparently don't feel Cook can adapt his game to the shortest form. Fallacious if you ask me - people said that about ODIs too, presumably after having not seen Cook play a limited overs innings for three years. Anyway, even if it isn't Cook (perhaps Hales, Davies, or more likely Roy in a year or two), I think the now well exposed technical flaws Keiswetter possesses will eventually become too hard to ignore.
tl;dr - He has half-decent reasons to hold his spot for now, but I don't think he's good enough in general.
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smash84
The Tiger King
Misbah
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Howe_zat
Audio File
If you can reverse the ball after 16 overs of a T20, why can't you reverse one of the new balls after 32 overs of an ODI?
I understand the difficulty, but surely it's no easier in a T20?
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Davies for the ODI top 3? Yay or nay?
Howe_zat
Audio File
Not sure. Top 3 doesn't appear to be calling out for fixing right now, so I'm inclined to go with nay. Could we get away with him at #4?
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
I don't know, but clearly Gul couldn't in the ODI's but did manage it in the T20. Still doesn't change the fact that we don't have good new ball bowlers. Gul, Cheema, Junaid and Wahab are all old ball bowlers.
Tanveer Ahmad was a new ball bowler, and he didn't do too badly.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
TBH as both are already in as specialist bats he could be looking over his shoulder for Hales or Cook too.
That said as Kies is comfortably better with the gloves that Bairstow and, whilst I've never seen Buttler keep, CK invariably gets the gauntlets when both play for Somerset I think it's fair to imagine that their batting is both of the B boys' stronger suits.
Woodster
International Captain
I'm a big fan of a top gloveman in my T20 side as a keeper, I don't think it's anywhere near as essential that they can be a top five/six batsman in a 20-over game as there should be more than enough batting to post a decent total. A real specialist can have a big say in a 20 overs standing tidily up to the stumps, so for me I would go with James Foster and I thought he was really unlucky to be dropped from the T20 side when he was. While he is no Kieswetter, Davies or Buttler with the bat he's no mug and can be effective in his own style.
Howe_zat
Audio File
Like your thinking Woods. I remember Foster pulling off a superb stumping to get rid of Yuvraj in the World T20, and it being one of the biggest factors in us winning the game. If we can get him down to #7 in the order than his batting won't really be needed. Ideally, he wouldn't be batting at all, and often a #7 comes in just to make sure he gets a set batsman on strike, a job the experienced man that Foster is should be able to handle.
I also think we really missed Bresnan's batting the other day. People forget just how much better a bat he is than Broad or Swann in the shortened forms.
Maybe:
KP
Cook/Hales
Bopara
Morgan
Patel
Buttler
Foster
Bresnan
Swann
Broad
Finn/Dernbach/Anderson
I also think we really missed Bresnan's batting the other day. People forget just how much better a bat he is than Broad or Swann in the shortened forms.
Maybe:
KP
Cook/Hales
Bopara
Morgan
Patel
Buttler
Foster
Bresnan
Swann
Broad
Finn/Dernbach/Anderson
Woodster
International Captain
Yes not a bad side at all that Jake. I think flexibility in that order is possible too, there may be times when Bresnan could come in at seven ahead of Foster or Buttler could be tossed higher up, but I agree with how you've set it out.
Would prefer Cook to miss out tbh, and would also throw a fully fit Ben Stokes into the equation, probably ahead of Patel if conditions favoured another seam option.
The side has a look of everything you should have in a T20 side, a top seven that has explosiveness, unorthodoxy, players that can work the ball, finishers, right hand/left hand combination, youth (should be plenty of it) and experience, and the team in general you'd expect to be very good in the field (maybe only Patel letting the side down here).
The bowling is a skilled attack, more experienced and full of players that we know can perform well under pressure and execute the right deliveries when required. Also vital to have two or three alternatives in the batsmen too meaning Broad will have numerous options available.
Howe_zat
Audio File
I wouldn't say it has everything, there is a real lack of players with both power and experience in that middle order. Especially with Morgan out of nick. I don't think we can hold up the likes of Bopara, Patel and Buttler and say these guys would get games as specialist bats for many other T20I sides.
Part of the reason I want Cook in there is to have more in the way of proven international batsmen.
Part of the reason I want Cook in there is to have more in the way of proven international batsmen.