What to do when 'the greats' retire?

[chrisps]

Australia and Sri Lanka (and soon India) have been faced with losing the players that have made their Test teams successful. How do teams counter the decline that comes with a less talented generation of players following a team with champions? I keep reading that those teams should have been 'succession planning'. It sounds like business jargon nonsense to me. More of my thoughts on this are at Success and succession planning Declaration Game

Is decline just part of the natural order, or can teams maintain success without the stars but using different strategies?

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I think England is doing a great job at this. They are ensuring that when the likes of Swann, Anderson, etc retire, they have good bowlers in place.

It's great that they are giving the Lions more away series, so that they improve.

I wish Pakistan would secure more away series for their A and under 19 team. But we do have an advantage in terms of talent. When every kid plays cricket in the street from childhood, you are bound to get a few special players emerging as a result.

 

[Viscount Tom]

They either survive because they've got suitable reserves or go into decline like the West Indies because the reverses can't perform.

India is likely to suffer heavily when its top players go because of the T20 obsession which really isn't in the same league of standard of either tests or a decent FC cricket championship.

Australia had a rough patch for about 18 months to 2 years when it finally lost Gilchrist and Hayden, partley because Brett Lee got injured and retired and Clark just disappeared. But unlike India, there FC system is strong and the T20 is treated more as a bit of fun rather than out and out seriousness.

Sri Lanka quite obviously haven't really coped at all since losing Murali and Vaas, although the latter still plays FC...

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I hope that they don't mess up the Pentagular cup in Pakistan. It's a pretty competitive FC tournament and provides a good analysis on our domestic players. It's a shame though that guys like Fawad Alam have instead opted to play in the BPL.

 

[kyear2]

All great teams go through an exodus at some time, and it's impossible to be as great right away, but its how soon u can develop that tallent that decides how soon the team bounes back. We had our last mass retirement in '91 and still haven't fully recovered.

 

[Furball]

They either survive because they've got suitable reserves or go into decline like the West Indies because the reverses can't perform.

India is likely to suffer heavily when its top players go because of the T20 obsession which really isn't in the same league of standard of either tests or a decent FC cricket championship.

Australia had a rough patch for about 18 months to 2 years when it finally lost Gilchrist and Hayden, partley because Brett Lee got injured and retired and Clark just disappeared. But unlike India, there FC system is strong and the T20 is treated more as a bit of fun rather than out and out seriousness.

Sri Lanka quite obviously haven't really coped at all since losing Murali and Vaas, although the latter still plays FC...

Australia might have a strong FC competition but it's producing **** all in the way of batsmen.

 

[Spark]

Whilst true, bowlers - especially quicks - are generally harder to find than batsmen and we have a ****load right now.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Lucky Bastards.

 

[Arjun]

India is likely to suffer heavily when its top players go because of the T20 obsession which really isn't in the same league of standard of either tests or a decent FC cricket championship.

That doesn't go down to the actual domestic players. They actually play very little T20 cricket, and don't get much action in the IPL- with proceedings dominated by international recruits and current Indian frontline T20/ODI players. We talk up Pujara, Rahane and Tiwary as future Test specialists- but they play very little T20 cricket.

What India seriously needs is a major overhaul of the FC system, which is so negative it makes the IPL look a serious factor, and also schedule more India A tours, and fill the team with younger players (as against those who have played a lot of seasons).

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Whilst true, bowlers - especially quicks - are generally harder to find than batsmen and we have a ****load right now.

England and Australia certainly look well stocked in that department at present as do SA. The rest of the world outside their test sides are really struggling though.

I am confident we have enough good young bats coming through that they will find their way in time (just hope they can play spin) which is one area Australia's cupboard looks extremely bare in at present.

 

[Spark]

I don't think SA have the same kind of bowling depth England and Australia do tbh. Certainly not on the level that if one or two frontline quicks gets injured, you can call in replacements without a substantial drop in quality.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

When we get another great I'll let you know my opinion of our succession plan. Many very good players, some good ones, some just not to top level, but no greats.

 

[Dan]

I don't think SA have the same kind of bowling depth England and Australia do tbh. Certainly not on the level that if one or two frontline quicks gets injured, you can call in replacements without a substantial drop in quality.

Doesn't help that if their top quick gets injured, SA have to replace Dale Steyn.

A combination Philander, Morkel, de Lange, Tsotsobe, Parnell .etc could probably all do a decent job of being a SA pace attack, but obviously they couldn't fill the shoes of Steyn. He is that damn good.

In the case of Australia though, there isn't one ridiculously good bowler head and shoulders above the rest, you could probably rotate any of the top 6 or 7 without too much of a drop off. Its not a lack of depth on SA's part IMO, it just shows how bloody good Steyn is.

 

[Spark]

Doesn't help that if their top quick gets injured, SA have to replace Dale Steyn.

A combination Philander, Morkel, de Lange, Tsotsobe, Parnell .etc could probably all do a decent job of being a SA pace attack, but obviously they couldn't fill the shoes of Steyn. He is that damn good.

In the case of Australia though, there isn't one ridiculously good bowler head and shoulders above the rest, you could probably rotate any of the top 6 or 7 without too much of a drop off. Its not a lack of depth on SA's part IMO, it just shows how bloody good Steyn is.

See but even outside Steyn I think there's a very real drop in quality in that list of five names that you mention from left to right.

 

[smash84]

England will be **** again in 3 years time....Always an over rated team. already got beaten 3-0

 

[smash84]

When we get another great I'll let you know my opinion of our succession plan. Many very good players, some good ones, some just not to top level, but no greats.

Richard Hadlee?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Richard Hadlee?

Think he meant currently.

It is clear that India are going to be hit hard by upcoming retirements but maybe not as hard as some thought as the greats have probably gone on too long in some cases and held back some of the talented younger players.

As for the rest of the world i'd say only Ponting and Steyn would currently rank as greats anyway and Ponting has been in decline for years till he feasted on India's crapness.

 

[MrPrez]

See but even outside Steyn I think there's a very real drop in quality in that list of five names that you mention from left to right.

The problem is that because there are loads of English and Australian fans on the internet in comparison to SA, their bowlers get talked up a lot more. Between Steyn, Morkel, Philander, De Lange and Tsotsobe we choose 3 front-liners. There is still Parnell (who for the record is only 22) for the future. After them there are still a good few good bowlers in our FC system - you just don't hear of them as much because there isn't nearly as much of a following of domestic cricket in SA and Aus, particularly among cricket forumers.
Andrew Birch | South Africa Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

Most will have never heard of him I would think but his record speaks for itself - yet he isn't in the national selectors thoughts.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

The three countries that you can always rely on to produce fast bowlers are Australia, South Africa and Pakistan (hopefully a few more will be coming soon). So I wouldn't put South Africa down at the moment for not having a great bench strength. When they are in need of a quick in the future they will produce one.

 

[morgieb]

The problem is that because there are loads of English and Australian fans on the internet in comparison to SA, their bowlers get talked up a lot more. Between Steyn, Morkel, Philander, De Lange and Tsotsobe we choose 3 front-liners. There is still Parnell (who for the record is only 22) for the future. After them there are still a good few good bowlers in our FC system - you just don't hear of them as much because there isn't nearly as much of a following of domestic cricket in SA and Aus, particularly among cricket forumers.
Andrew Birch | South Africa Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

Most will have never heard of him I would think but his record speaks for itself - yet he isn't in the national selectors thoughts.

Doesn't Birch play a lot of park cricket though, or am I just imagining things?