***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2012

[SteveNZ]

Interesting hearing Taylor on the radio this morning speaking about Ryder. Seemed as fed up with his **** as everyone else and wasn't exactly keen to have him back in the side. He definitely wouldn't be playing in the odi's if it wasn't for the injury crisis.

What time? Might be well worth a listen.

I think it's been documented in the past that Taylor was fed up of his **** around the turn of the century.

 

[Bahnz]

What time? Might be well worth a listen.

I think it's been documented in the past that Taylor was fed up of his **** around the turn of the century.

On the cricket hour (8-9) on radio sport. Think the bit I listened to was at around 8:15.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

It's a matter of long-term gain though, Ryder needs to get the message that he's not an automatic pick.

Exactly.

 

[Mike5181]

Jesse Ryder: "I've worked really hard the last five weeks.'' He claims to have shed 3.5 kilograms.

 

[BeeGee]

t'll be interesting to see what they do with the top six in the ODIs.

Personal wise, the top six pick themselves because there are only six batsmen in the squad.
But the order they bat in is certainly unclear.

 

[Neil Young]

Jesse Ryder: "I've worked really hard the last five weeks.'' He claims to have shed 3.5 kilograms.

That's just his anorexic missus he's finished with.

Looks like Ryder is going to bat 4 or 5. Makes sense as no point is fixing something that isn't broken at the top. Will be interesting to see how he goes. Was also interesting listening to Simon Doull saying Ryder wasn't happy at Wellington. Wonder if any truth in that. He's a bit of a malcontent is big Jesse.

 

[Prince EWS]

Ryder batting 4 or 5 makes sense anyway because he's a middle order batsman. The insistence on him batting in the top 3 in limited overs cricket is one of the reasons (aside from the obvious) that his record there doesn't come close to matching his talent (especially domestically), IMO. He may not to lightning between the wickets but - when he's batting well, anyway - he's one of the best in the country at manoeuvring good deliveries for ones and twos, and once he gets set he can really launch. It's the perfect blueprint for a 4-6 OD bat; he's too good to just be told to just hit boundaries at the top until he gets out.

 

[Neil Young]

Yep, there is that, PEWS, but for me the best batsmen get the most time in one-dayers. But we'll see how he goes in the middle order.

 

[Bahnz]

Although it's again worth pointing out that Ryder has a pretty awesome record in the top 3.

 

[Polo23]

Pretty doubtful whether there will be a game today. The weather has packed in, though as I say this the rain appears to have stopped in South-East Auckland and it's brightened up a bit...forecast doesn't look great though.

 

[Prince EWS]

Although it's again worth pointing out that Ryder has a pretty awesome record in the top 3.

Domestically he's been rubbish there and I while an average of 35 or so in ODIs is pretty good, it's not "awesome", especially when it's only been achieved over 30 innings. He's always performed better in proper cricket and I think one of the reasons for that is the fact that he always bats out of position in pyjama cricket. He's only scored two ODI hundreds and one of them was unsurprising with the aid of a runner; I simply don't think he's been that good in ODIs in the top three tbh.

 

[Mike5181]

Domestically he's been rubbish there and I while an average of 35 or so in ODIs is pretty good, it's not "awesome", especially when it's only been achieved over 30 innings. He's always performed better in proper cricket and I think one of the reasons for that is the fact that he always bats out of position in pyjama cricket. He's only scored two ODI hundreds and one of them was unsurprising with the aid of a runner; I simply don't think he's been that good in ODIs in the top three tbh.

Ryder scores runs against good bowling attacks in ODIs. He averages 40 against non-minnows with a strike rate of 95. You can't ask for much more than that.

 

[Prince EWS]

Ryder scores runs against good bowling attacks in ODIs. He averages 40 against non-minnows with a strike rate of 95. You can't ask for much more than that.

I don't think the fact that he's failed against minnows is a good thing, especially when you consider the fact that we're looking at a small sample size. I'm just pretty sceptical tbh and he'll need to do that for longer than the 25 innings or whatever he's played against non-minnows in the top three for me to change my mind.

... Or go down to the middle order, where I think he'll be gun. Which is happening now.

 

[Days of Grace]

Look, I have nothing against Ryder coming back into the team.

But asking the top order to shuffle around or drop down to the middle order to accomodate him when they have been doing a good job all season would just be taking the piss.

He is the man coming in so he will have to fit around the team's already established plans.

 

[Mike5181]

I don't think the fact that he's failed against minnows is a good thing, especially when you consider the fact that we're looking at a small sample size. I'm just pretty sceptical tbh and he'll need to do that for longer than the 25 innings or whatever he's played against non-minnows in the top three for me to change my mind.

... Or go down to the middle order, where I think he'll be gun. Which is happening now.

I like him in the middle order as well. I always thought batting with McCullum had a negative influence for him at times. It almost depends on Rob Nicol and McCullum improving against top teams though. Nicol hasn't had the chance but McCullum has been woeful in ODIs for a while now. Averages something like 19 in his last 20 ODIs against non-minnows.

1.Martin Guptill
2.Rob Nicol
3.Brendon McCullum
4.Jesse Ryder
5.Kane Willamson
6.James Franklin

Insert Ross Taylor when we are full strength and that's a pretty decent batting line up especially with most of the bowlers having the ability to bat.

 

[Prince EWS]

I like him in the middle order as well. I always thought batting with McCullum had a negative influence for him at times. It almost depends on Rob Nicol and McCullum improving against top teams though. Nicol hasn't had the chance but McCullum has been woeful in ODIs for a while now. Averages something like 19 in his last 20 ODIs against non-minnows.

1.Martin Guptill
2.Rob Nicol
3.Brendon McCullum
4.Jesse Ryder
5.Kane Willamson
6.James Franklin

Insert Ross Taylor when we are full strength and that's a pretty decent batting line up especially with most of the bowlers having the ability to bat.

Incidentally I think McCullum at 3 is an absolutely awful idea; he should either open or finish.

At full strength I'd roll with:

1. Guptill
2. Nicol
3. Williamson
4. Taylor
5. Ryder
6. McCullum

With Taylor out, Ryder bats 4 and Franklin bats 5.

Failing that combination, Nicol bats 3 IMO.

 

[Mike5181]

Don't disagree with you about McCullum at 3. He seems reluctant to move back down the order though.

 

[Prince EWS]

Don't disagree with you about McCullum at 3. He seems reluctant to move back down the order though.

I'd sooner put Nicol at 3 and open with McCullum than the other way around though. Of that full strength top 6 I named, he is actually probably the last player I'd put there.

 

[Mike5181]

How bad is this England Womens team playing? Average running.

 

[Mike5181]

I'd sooner put Nicol at 3 and open with McCullum than the other way around though. Of that full strength top 6 I named, he is actually probably the last player I'd put there.

Nicol probably has a better ODI approach to his batting which would suit batting at three more than McCullum. He hasn't done much wrong as an opener yet though so i wouldn't break up his partnership with Guptill.

If one of our top six fails we have guys we can go to now. Latham looked class for his age and Brownlie is an option when he's fit.