***Official*** Pakistan and England in UAE

[CWB304]

You're missing the point - all he's interested in is doing a hatchet job on the pair. He has nothing constructive to offer, merely a rant full of selective arguments.

Nice try.

I've mentioned a couple of names in earlier posts: Hildreth and Taylor. I've seen some other names mentioned by others who are more knowledgeable about the county scene than me, but haven't added those as I haven't seen them play enough.

The point is you've got to try them when they are young. Not too young, like poor Lathwell, but when they're young enough to still be on an upward curve and capable of improving as they learn about Test match cricket.

The reality is you never can predict how good they are going to be until you give them a try, and I've never believed for one second that bollocks about someone having to blow the selectors' doors down with "consistent weight of runs" in county cricket. That's just a self-serving argument used by fanboys to keep their favourite under-performers in the team.

Sometimes you just get a hunch, perhaps by the way someone moves their feet, or seems to have more time than his peers to play his shots, even if he hasn't put it all together and turned it into a consistent series of high scores in the county game. Vaughn was averaging in the 30s in county cricket when he was initially called up, yet he immediately took to Tests like a duck to water. There have been other examples, like Gower(?)

For me it's not "who can replace these guys?"; it's "these guys (KP and Bell) have shown their limitations at the highest level, so let's try and blood some youngsters who will someday be able to face the likes of Ajmal and Rehman without completely embarrassing themselves".

 

[hazsa19]

Wtf?

Bell and KP have both been far more consistent Test Match batsman than Michael Vaughan... Did you actually watch cricket a few years ago or have you just come on here after whacking on some youtube clips of the 02/03 Ashes?

And giving batsmen a year or two at no.6 is clearly a better way of blooding new players than throwing them in at 4.

 

[Jacknife]

Nice try.

I've mentioned a couple of names in earlier posts: Hildreth and Taylor. I've seen some other names mentioned by others who are more knowledgeable about the county scene than me, but haven't added those as I haven't seen them play enough.

The point is you've got to try them when they are young. Not too young, like poor Lathwell, but when they're young enough to still be on an upward curve and capable of improving as they learn about Test match cricket.

The reality is you never can predict how good they are going to be until you give them a try, and I've never believed for one second that bollocks about someone having to blow the selectors' doors down with "consistent weight of runs" in county cricket. That's just a self-serving argument used by fanboys to keep their favourite under-performers in the team.

Sometimes you just get a hunch, perhaps by the way someone moves their feet, or seems to have more time than his peers to play his shots, even if he hasn't put it all together and turned it into a consistent series of high scores in the county game. Vaughn was averaging in the 30s in county cricket when he was initially called up, yet he immediately took to Tests like a duck to water. There have been other examples, like Gower(?)

For me it's not "who can replace these guys?"; it's "these guys (KP and Bell) have shown their limitations at the highest level, so let's try and blood some youngsters who will someday be able to face the likes of Ajmal and Rehman without completely embarrassing themselves".

Lol give it a rest, limitations at the highest level, change the tune.

 

[Pothas]

I would be amazed if Hildreth was anything like as good a test batsman as KP or Bell and I think most people would agree.

 

[Jacknife]

Wtf?

Bell and KP have both been far more consistent Test Match batsman than Michael Vaughan... Did you actually watch cricket a few years ago or have you just come on here after whacking on some youtube clips of the 02/03 Ashes?

And giving batsmen a year or two at no.6 is clearly a better way of blooding new players than throwing them in at 4.

Beat me to it, Vaughn had a couple of good years and then was average to say the least, in his career he had one year where he averaged over 50 and only 3 over 40.

 

[Viscount Tom]

Hildreth had an iffy season with Somerset and batted at Taunton which isn't famed for much in the wya of help to bowlers.

Taylor's captaining the Lions and if we're honest hasn't been making that many scores.

More to the point there's no reason to drop either KP or Bell they're good players and we've got some big series this year, KP's got issues against good left arm spinners Bell hasn't been up to scratch this series against Ajmal every player has bad series.

Furthermore the youngsters get blooded with the Lions tours and aside from Buttler none of the batsmen on them seem to have been able to put up good performances on the slower tracks.

Also you made a point about Vaughan taking to test cricket like a duck to water. He didn't as you can generally see by his scores over his career and his scores in that first few series he played.

 

[Shri]

Singapore.



Haha, they don't even allow camera phones in camp, forget laptops. It's also on an island which means there might not be 3G available. If there is 3G, I'm going to get my iPhone modified for $30 or so to get the camera removed so I can still use the internet at night.

Will get to book out on weekends and stuff so it's not too bad I suppose.

I thought "What would you do if you were stuck on an island with a cannibal Daemon?" was a hypothetical question.

 

[Jacknife]

Hildreth had an iffy season with Somerset and batted at Taunton which isn't famed for much in the wya of help to bowlers.

Taylor's captaining the Lions and if we're honest hasn't been making that many scores.

More to the point there's no reason to drop either KP or Bell they're good players and we've got some big series this year, KP's got issues against good left arm spinners Bell hasn't been up to scratch this series against Ajmal every player has bad series.

Furthermore the youngsters get blooded with the Lions tours and aside from Buttler none of the batsmen on them seem to have been able to put up good performances on the slower tracks.

Also you made a point about Vaughan taking to test cricket like a duck to water. He didn't as you can generally see by his scores over his career and his scores in that first few series he played.

Not the point drop them.

 

[Pothas]

Nice try.

I've mentioned a couple of names in earlier posts: Hildreth and Taylor. I've seen some other names mentioned by others who are more knowledgeable about the county scene than me, but haven't added those as I haven't seen them play enough.

The point is you've got to try them when they are young. Not too young, like poor Lathwell, but when they're young enough to still be on an upward curve and capable of improving as they learn about Test match cricket.

The reality is you never can predict how good they are going to be until you give them a try, and I've never believed for one second that bollocks about someone having to blow the selectors' doors down with "consistent weight of runs" in county cricket. That's just a self-serving argument used by fanboys to keep their favourite under-performers in the team.

Sometimes you just get a hunch, perhaps by the way someone moves their feet, or seems to have more time than his peers to play his shots, even if he hasn't put it all together and turned it into a consistent series of high scores in the county game. Vaughn was averaging in the 30s in county cricket when he was initially called up, yet he immediately took to Tests like a duck to water. There have been other examples, like Gower(?)

For me it's not "who can replace these guys?"; it's "these guys (KP and Bell) have shown their limitations at the highest level, so let's try and blood some youngsters who will someday be able to face the likes of Ajmal and Rehman without completely embarrassing themselves".

Yes because selection by hunch is obviously the way to go, in that case il have James Vince and Moeen Ali for the next test. Come on you know that is no way to select an international side. We have a very well structured system in this country for developing young players, lets not change that.

This series has been dreadful, from pretty much all the batsman but it is still the best 1-5 we have had in all the time I have been following England. The fail against the very best line is just as tired as 'the weight of runs' argument you seem to hate so much.

 

[CWB304]

I would be amazed if Hildreth was anything like as good a test batsman as KP or Bell and I think most people would agree.

The point is we won't actually know if that is the case until he's given the opportunity. Btw, what does "most people would agree" add to your point?

 

[hazsa19]

The point is we won't actually know if that is the case until he's given the opportunity. Btw, what does "most people would agree" add to your point?

That you're ****ing delusional

 

[CWB304]

Wtf?

Bell and KP have both been far more consistent Test Match batsman than Michael Vaughan... Did you actually watch cricket a few years ago or have you just come on here after whacking on some youtube clips of the 02/03 Ashes?

And giving batsmen a year or two at no.6 is clearly a better way of blooding new players than throwing them in at 4.

I was not comparing Vaughan to KP or Bell. That ought to be crystal clear to anyone who is not a mental defective. The point I was making, in case you're stupid enough to need this to to be explained to you, was not that Vaughan was as good as, or better than, Bell or KP, but that his initial performances in Tests were better than what his county performances would have suggested he was capable of. He averaged in the mid-thirties in FCC when he was first picked, and even with the sad tailing off of his Test career towards the end he comfortably averaged in the 40s in Tests. That is a successful selection, by comparison with the likes of Hick and Ramprakash.

If you go back to my post you can quite easily see that the reference to Vaughan (and Gower) was in the context only of how someone who might not have a spectacular county average might turn out to be good enough to play Tests. Seeing as you so willfully chose to pervert my meaning in the case of Vaughan (an easy target whom you presumably thought you could throw in my face with a "ha ha, Bell and KP are better than him!", I wonder why you did not also do the same for Gower?

 

[slowfinger]

Stop argue or I hit you both.

turning out to be a :

Afridi Ghambir clash

 

[Furball]

I was not comparing Vaughan to KP or Bell. That ought to be crystal clear to anyone who is not a mental defective. The point I was making, in case you're stupid enough to need this to to be explained to you, was not that Vaughan was as good as, or better than, Bell or KP, but that his initial performances in Tests were better than what his county performances would have suggested he was capable of. He averaged in the mid-thirties in FCC when he was first picked, and even with the sad tailing off of his Test career towards the end he comfortably averaged in the 40s in Tests. That is a successful selection, by comparison with the likes of Hick and Ramprakash.

If you go back to my post you can quite easily see that the reference to Vaughan (and Gower) was in the context only of how someone who might not have a spectacular county average might turn out to be good enough to play Tests. Seeing as you so willfully chose to pervert my meaning in the case of Vaughan (an easy target whom you presumably thought you could throw in my face with a "ha ha, Bell and KP are better than him!", I wonder why you did not also do the same for Gower?

Vaughan was rubbish.

 

[CWB304]

That you're ****ing delusional

Nice attempted save. By adding that piece of perfectly useless, and, incidentally, unverifiable information, you just revealed that you take a certain degree comfort from siding with the majority, as if the fact that they are in the majority itself confers some authority. It doesn't, and I don't. "Most people" believe in quite a lot of nonsense, which I am quite happy to admit to disagreeing with, when opinions are being canvassed, as here on this forum.

 

[Jacknife]

No, the point is that if someone is to come in and replace players, he has to have some kind of form and numbers to back him up, simply picking players for the sake of it, very rarely works.
He also has to be putting the present England players under pressure for their places and also more likely to score runs if he does replace them.
Your basically suggesting along the lines of, pick him lets see how he goes, even though he hasn't much form or runs in the bank. Talk about a difficult place for someone to get introduced to international cricket and a disaster waiting to happen.
I'll stick to where players earn their places from piling on the runs in County Cricket and dropping players after a run of bad form not just a series.
If you followed CC you'd know that there are no middle order players putting pressure on the England players atm, there are some young up and comers but apart from Taylor who should have got the gig before Morgan, no one. Having Bopara as back up batsman should tell you everything you need to know about batting stocks.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nice attempted save. By adding that piece of perfectly useless, and, incidentally, unverifiable information, you just revealed that you take a certain degree comfort from siding with the majority, as if the fact that they are in the majority itself confers some authority. It doesn't, and I don't. "Most people" believe in quite a lot of nonsense, which I am quite happy to admit to disagreeing with, when opinions are being canvassed, as here on this forum.

People compared you to Richard a bit early on, but I think you're actually more like a cricketing version of Maroon_Faithful.

 

[CWB304]

Yes because selection by hunch is obviously the way to go, in that case il have James Vince and Moeen Ali for the next test. Come on you know that is no way to select an international side. We have a very well structured system in this country for developing young players, lets not change that.

This series has been dreadful, from pretty much all the batsman but it is still the best 1-5 we have had in all the time I have been following England. The fail against the very best line is just as tired as 'the weight of runs' argument you seem to hate so much.

How does "sometimes you just get a hunch" pulled at random from a long post turn into my advocating "selection by hunch"? Are you claiming that no selector in history has ever gone on a hunch, when for instance trying to choose between two players with similar records? Or is your argument that any use of hunch (perhaps I should have used a more respectable word like "intuition", or mentioned "intangibles") is wrong? I'm genuinely confused. I am not in any way advocating changing the very well structured system which has indeed served England well in recent years. What I am saying is that we've made the investment, let's for goodness' sake use it and clear out this dead wood that is currently making English batting a global laughing stock.

 

[CWB304]

Vaughan was rubbish.

And you're thick.

 

[Furball]

And you're thick.

Oh good, we're resorting to insults now.

Onto the ignore list you go.