*Official* English Football Season 2011-12

[marc71178]

What I cannot fathom out is why Taggart spent £18m on de Gea when Stekelenberg was available for £6m - far superior keeper and the right age to play for a decade or so.

 

[Tom Halsey]

You're all giving Fergie too much credit. He's just not willing to completely give up on an £18m investment after four months.

But De Gea's current levels of direness are so extreme that there isn't really any reasonable excuse for letting him near a football pitch. I remember with Almunia it took everyone, but especially Arsenal fans, a while to appreciate just how bad he was. But going purely by his performances in England and shutting out the hype, De Gea's even worse. He's been the worst keeper in the Premiership without question, and there probably aren't many Championship keepers worse than he is. Actually, given that the style of football exposes his weaknesses more severely the further down the ladder you go, there's probably only a handful of clubs in the entire football league that he'd be first choice for. But Fergie thinks he can play him in the most important position and still win trophies, and it's already put us out of the cup and the champion's league. The points he's cost us in the league are quite likely to prove crucial too, but the least he can do now is try to limit the damage.

Yeah you're way way way overstating things.

 

[sledger]

Be that as it may, I really don't think he would get in many other Premiership teams, I really don't.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Before this season, most Premiership teams would have happily bought him, finances permitting.

Obviously I don't think he was the best of purchases exactly (I wouldn't have signed him in the first place given the choices available, and I wasn't exactly alone), but I think some of the reactions based on half a season (some very good players have had poor half-seasons in the past) are frankly ridiculously over the top.

 

[sledger]

Before this season, most Premiership teams would have happily bought him, finances permitting.

Obviously I don't think he was the best of purchases exactly (I wouldn't have signed him in the first place given the choices available, and I wasn't exactly alone), but I think some of the reactions based on half a season (some very good players have had poor half-seasons in the past) are frankly ridiculously over the top.

You're probably right, and yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing etc... I would not have been at all surprised if Arsenal had made a move for him had Szczesny not cemented his place in the first team to be honest. Fortunately, that didn't materialise.

Reactions may have been exaggerated somewhat, and it's only fair to give him more than half a season to prove himself, but that shouldn't mask the fact that not only has he under-performed, but looked really out of his depth. I remember the first time I ever saw him in a live match and my first thought was "this guy just does not look like a professional goalkeeper", and to this day I always think he just looks like a teenager wearing a replica kit. Having watched him play, I really have not seen anything that suggests he's of requisite quality to play for a top team. Granted, I'll admit I saw barely anything of him whilst he played for Atletico, and he still has time to turn it around here, and hats off to him if he does, but I really can't see it happening.

 

[Nate]

What I cannot fathom out is why Taggart spent £18m on de Gea when Stekelenberg was available for £6m - far superior keeper and the right age to play for a decade or so.

Those were my thoughts at the time too.

Lindegaard doing a solid job anyway imo.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I haven't seen a lot of De Gea, but when I have he just seems to have absolutely no presence. Everyone fancies their chances against him. That winning goal Dirk Krap scored was a perfect example. De Gea made himself about as small as he could and then folded backwards when Krap hit it. Schmeichel for instance was the exact opposite - he would have made himself look big, covered as much of the goal as he could - he had a presence and makes the same shooting opportunity look harder. As well as that a top goalkeeper would in all likelihood have saved the shot. A goalkeeper with presence gets in the heads of the forwards, De Gea gets in the heads of his defence.

 

[sledger]

I haven't seen a lot of De Gea, but when I have he just seems to have absolutely no presence. Everyone fancies their chances against him. That winning goal Dirk Krap scored was a perfect example. De Gea made himself about as small as he could and then folded backwards when Krap hit it. Schmeichel for instance was the exact opposite - he would have made himself look big, covered as much of the goal as he could - he had a presence and makes the same shooting opportunity look harder. As well as that a top goalkeeper would in all likelihood have saved the shot. A goalkeeper with presence gets in the heads of the forwards, De Gea gets in the heads of his defence.

I think this is spot on actually. It's totally true for any team playing at any level of football, having a commanding goalkeeper makes an incredible difference to teams performance, it's probably no coincidence that teams that have any prolonged success almost always have a goalkeeper who can be said to be more than just competent. It's also probably for this very reason that Cech, who is has been a shadow of his former self since his nasty injury has lasted so long I would say.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Funny thing is I was about to use Schmeichel as a counter example. Schmeichel in the first half of the 98/99 season was every bit as bad as De Gea has been. Obviously that was a total anomaly, but that's sort of the point.

I suspect De Gea won't suddenly become a Schmeichel-esque world beater, and I do think it was a mistake to sign him, I just think everything has been massively overstated, and I think it's slightly premature to write him off beyond all doubt.

 

[Ausage]

Whilst I wont argue with that, I'd say it was an awful game to bring him back into if thats the case. Given his lack of confidence with the cross/corner, to put him against the arial prowess of Liverpool, at Anfield, is asking too much.

It guess so, well the proof is in the pudding really. Thing was if Ferguson thought for some reason he'd come good (had trained well, worked on his problems) then that confidence problem does a 180 and all of a sudden you have a totally different keeper. A couple of good games is all you need as a keeper to feel like you genuinely belong as an accepted member of the squad.

I haven't seen much of him outside of the prem, but there's no way I'd have him at Rovers over Robbo. Robbo makes clangers here and there, but he's solid in all areas, organises the defense well (as well as he can) and is a very good shot stopper. He's kept us in games we had no right to be in on occassion.

 

[Nate]

It guess so, well the proof is in the pudding really. Thing was if Ferguson thought for some reason he'd come good (had trained well, worked on his problems) then that confidence problem does a 180 and all of a sudden you have a totally different keeper. A couple of good games is all you need as a keeper to feel like you genuinely belong as an accepted member of the squad.

I haven't seen much of him outside of the prem, but there's no way I'd have him at Rovers over Robbo. Robbo makes clangers here and there, but he's solid in all areas, organises the defense well (as well as he can) and is a very good shot stopper. He's kept us in games we had no right to be in on occassion.

Screw all that - getting kicked in the face to win that penalty is one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

 

[sledger]

Funny thing is I was about to use Schmeichel as a counter example. Schmeichel in the first half of the 98/99 season was every bit as bad as De Gea has been. Obviously that was a total anomaly, but that's sort of the point.

I suspect De Gea won't suddenly become a Schmeichel-esque world beater, and I do think it was a mistake to sign him, I just think everything has been massively overstated, and I think it's slightly premature to write him off beyond all doubt.

True, but by this point Schmeichel was internationally recognised as a quality performer and had a successful track record both internationally and domestically in England. Not to mention the fact that he had undoubted presence. Poor form or not, you would look at him, and just think "this guy looks the part, and will take some beating".

Contrastingly, De Gea has no record in England to speak of, and hasn't played two full seasons for any top flight club anywhere. Couple this with the fact that he seems to totally lack the presence required and I think you can see why his performances and the performances of Schmeichel in the period you mentioned cannot be compared favourably.

Above everything else I feel really sorry for the guy. In my experience playing at the absolute lowest levels of football, goalkeeping errors are truly horrible to experience, to make them in any professional arena must be absolutely horrid. For a guy who is barely out of his teens to be plucked from his home town club and to move to a foreign country and put straight into the first team of the biggest club in the world must be incredibly daunting. The pressure he must be experiencing must be absolutely enormous.

 

[Nate]

The pressure he must be experiencing must be absolutely enormous.

Yeah well you're not helping.

 

[Ausage]

Screw all that - getting kicked in the face to win that penalty is one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

Haha yes!! WAG

 

[sledger]

Yeah well you're not helping.

Ok, well next time he reads this thread he can tell me himself.

 

[marc71178]

Mame Diouf another triumphant signing for Taggart there - £4m in, £1.5m out.

 

[Uppercut]

I don't mean to write him off permanently, I'm only emphasising how bad he's been and I don't think I'm overstating it. It's fair enough to defend him on the grounds that he'll get better, he's bound to be struggling with confidence and it's not really a situation where you can expect a young Spanish keeper to walk into the team and look like he belongs. But what I'm getting at is that there's no defending his performances this season- I don't think it's overstating it to say that almost all of the keepers in league two will reckon they've kept better than De Gea has this year. Given the level of performance we can reasonably expect from him in a game going on tomorrow, there's just no way of justifying him playing.

 

[sledger]

Isn't he likely to play tomorrow as well though? Lindegaard struggling with injury and rated as "highly unlikely" to make it for tomorrow's match according to the media. Stoke not exactly a team to look forward to playing at the best of times either.

 

[sledger]

Mame Diouf another triumphant signing for Taggart there - £4m in, £1.5m out.

One wonders how long it will be until the mercurial talent that is Bébé follows him.

 

[Nate]

Ok, well next time he reads this thread he can tell me himself.

That was the joke.


















Paddy Kenny is a saint

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