***Official*** Pakistan and England in UAE

[Black_Warrior]

Yeah thanks.

But then if it's all to do with the wrist position then why is it that we keep on producing guys who are mainly good at reverse and not conventional swing. Since you have said earlier that if you can swing, you can reverse. Shouldn't the opposite be true as well. Why does someone like Gul find it so difficult to swing the new ball but can reverse the moment there is any hint.

Swinging the new ball requires skill with the wrist which is not very easy.
Swinging the old ball requires skill with the wrist plus how you work on the ball and maintain the ball and the seam, the rough and the shine. Wasim Akram talks about these things on TV from time to time.. try looking on youtube

 

[Furball]

Cricket web's Pakistan crew sure are pessimistic. Or maybe just superstitious, still not sure which. Definitely entertaining however.

I'd rather read pages of rampant pessimism than read rubbish about Misbah batting too slowly.

 

[Uppercut]

I suppose it depends on how you viewed the attack pre-Philander. Personally I don't think it really did underachieve as to what its personnel was. Typically South Africa's random losses have come due to randomly terrible batting efforts, and I just didn't think the attack was that good on paper anyway. An all-time great bowler, a good albeit somewhat inconsistent bowler, a solid fifth option from the top six and two bowlers who are realistically not Test standard is not a particularly good attack on paper to me so they were always prone to a bit of inconsistency. Adding Philander to the mix changes that for me completely. I don't really believe Morkel is any different as a bowler to what he was a year ago; he's just going through a "down" cycle, which is what he does. He's inconsistent and has ups and downs; he doesn't keep improving and declining all the time; I think people need to look at him more long-term.

Hmm, they've only half solved the problem of building pressure because Tahir's a bit of a release valve at the moment. Having a poorer fourth bowler, on top of being a disadvantage in itself, tends to make the rest of the attack less effective. There are other factors too, I have less faith in the South African backups, especially if one of their important quota-friendly players breaks down, and their fielding is pretty good but on the whole not as good as England's.

It's funny that this has come up today because I think England have put in a really good shift. The scorecard really doesn't do justice to how flat the pitch is.

 

[Furball]

Yeah thanks.

But then if it's all to do with the wrist position then why is it that we keep on producing guys who are mainly good at reverse and not conventional swing. Since you have said earlier that if you can swing, you can reverse. Shouldn't the opposite be true as well. Why does someone like Gul find it so difficult to swing the new ball but can reverse the moment there is any hint.

As far as I understand it the seam position you need to swing the ball conventionally is different to what you need to reverse it.

 

[benchmark00]

Yeah thanks.

But then if it's all to do with the wrist position then why is it that we keep on producing guys who are mainly good at reverse and not conventional swing. Since you have said earlier that if you can swing, you can reverse. Shouldn't the opposite be true as well. Why does someone like Gul find it so difficult to swing the new ball but can reverse the moment there is any hint.

Ok so conventional swing is all to do with action, and getting the seam slightly pointing the way you want it to go. For a right handed out swinger, you want it pointed towards the slips.

With reverse, you just get the seam bolt upright and the air will play its role. It's easier to get a seam straight (which is needed for reverse) compared to conventional which is all to do with seam direction (i.e. slight pointed to where you want it to swing).

 

[Agent Nationaux]

How difficult is it really for a professional fast bowler to tilt the seam a bit.

 

[benchmark00]

How difficult is it really for a professional fast bowler to tilt the seam a bit.

Yes I know.

At that level it's the intent of the bowler though. Not everyone will be a swing bowler remember. Some rely on hitting the pitch and cutting it around.

 

[Bouncer]

Exactly..Terrible batting from Misbah.. He cost Pakistan a World Cup and now possibly this series...

All England need to do now is score 300 runs in the second innings..and that is not impossible..England will not make the same mistakes they made in the first innings and anything over 170 in the fourth innings and its 1-0 to England.

IIts not just Misbah, Its the coach as well.

A big mistake has been made for last year and half by keeping the only batsman in Pak who "bats", out of the squad by labeling him reckless. Even if he was out of form and was needed to be given a lesson (I honestly do not buy that theory but for sake of argument), that was done against SA in UAE tests. My approach would have been (even back then) that we are playing at the easiest batting tracks in the world, lets give umar a chance to gain some form, but the captain and management decided to NOT to let umar back in form by providing him opportunity but to use this opportunity to teach him a lesson.

I have absolutely nothing against asad, who (even with his limitations) I see to be batting alongside UA for Pak in future. But he has been given amazing opportunities in the easiest conditions to make something of himself and Umar has been deprived of those opportunities. I wonder who was initially dropped from the squad when umar was taken to NZ and made his test debut and who very well knows that Umar and Asad batting in same squad is possible future for Pakistan.

 

[Prince EWS]

Hmm, they've only half solved the problem of building pressure because Tahir's a bit of a release valve at the moment. Having a poorer fourth bowler, on top of being a disadvantage in itself, tends to make the rest of the attack less effective. There are other factors too, I have less faith in the South African backups, especially if one of their important quota-friendly players breaks down, and their fielding is pretty good but on the whole not as good as England's.

It's funny that this has come up today because I think England have put in a really good shift. The scorecard really doesn't do justice to how flat the pitch is.

Well that I definitely agree with. England bowled very well today with the possible exception of Swann. That's not why I'm saying what I'm saying.

 

[Z-Man]

I am with BW on this.
No matter how good Misbah has been, if he does not win this series for us he will stay the same 'looser misbah' -07 and 11, for me.

Also, Pakistan is in trouble. I predict the test to be drawn.

 

[Daemon]

I am with BW on this.
No matter how good Misbah has been, if he does not win this series for us he will stay the same 'looser misbah' -07 and 11, for me.

That's just plain ridiculous.

 

[Furball]

Well that I definitely agree with. England bowled very well today with the possible exception of Swann. That's not why I'm saying what I'm saying.

I don't think Swann bowled terribly - unlike Ajmal, he was up against batsmen who elected not to have massive brainfarts.

 

[Fusion]

Those bashing Misbah and showing extreme disappointment in Pakistan’s position – you do realize we’re playing the top side in the world right? It was never going to be easy; they aren’t going to fold. Yes, we could have a bigger lead and a better position, but I would’ve taken being 100 ahead at the start of the match when we lost the toss.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I hope Adnan and the tail enders get us to a lead of 130-150 tomorrow.

 

[Howe_zat]

It's an odd chain of logic that brings out the absurdly pessimistic post.

"I wouldn't want to predict us winning or doing well. That way, I might look like a complete tool if it doesn't come off later on. I'd better play it safe and make myself look like a complete tool right now".

 

[Daemon]

Trott basically kept England in the game with that wicket imo.

 

[Jacknife]

Haven't watched any of the game today due to meetings but if we can get the tail out quickly tomorrow it's been a good effort from the lads. Ajmal is obviously the key for Pakistan in the second dig but I remember in 2010 when we played them then, the England batsmen had trouble with Ajmal in the first innings they saw him, then after that they played him much better, hoping for something similar. Someone from the England side is going to have get themselves in and play a biggy to get us a decent lead.

 

[Z-Man]

That's just plain ridiculous.

My comments may seem ridiculous but the way he captains is pathetic too.
His defense always movement is not going to work out well against good teams.

What he does is to try and bowl the opposition for 250 and below and then try to make 400-500 and then not bat the second time. This approach might be correct but his never-attack tactic seems to be the worst and like we saw today, it failed after a couple of wickets went down.

Plus, I admit my hatred towards him or the Tuk Tuk has a lot to do with his 'pathetic', 'atrocious', 'simply unacceptable' innings in Mohali 2011.
I forgave him in 2007 T20 since it was all his effort but in Mohali... What a complete bull**** innings.

 

[Jarquis]

Great effort from our bowlers today. I know Pakistan weren't showing the greatets intent but we bowled with good discipline.
Would've definitely taken this after how Day 1 went but the draw has to be a big favourite IMO. I fully expect England to make a good score and get themselves a sizeable lead but Pakistan have managed to bat for just over a day with little fuss and it's not every innings you'll get their best 2 batsman out with wickets from Trott and padding up.

 

[Z-Man]

Oh and I forgot to mention his geniuses with the team selection.
Muhammad Talha troubled the English batsmen with his raw speed on this road and he is sitting in reserves at the age of 23 while a 32 years old Aizaz Cheema tries to build his career.
Wahab Riaz has quite a lot of pace with reverse, Umar Gul, who is in the worst form of his life has been given preference over him.
Junaid Khan? I really do not need to mention.

To sum it up, he picked up the worst fast bowlers in the squad for this test.