Kallis vs Sobers, Donald vs Steyn, Trott vs Pollock

[kiwiviktor81]

I think that part of the reason why Kallis is rated lower than Sobers and Steyn lower than Donald is because the latter players were the first to do what they did. It's a kind of trailblazer effect. Kallis might be as good as Sobers statistically, but Sobers was the first to be that good. Kallis could emulate Sobers, but Sobers was breaking new ground, same with Donald.

I'm not saying that this line of thinking is logical, rather that that is how people think.

 

[Arachnodouche]

I can't remember the last match altering performance turned in by The Bowler Kallis. Plenty of wickets, but I reckon it's been a case of steady accumulation over a staggeringly large no. of Tests, 150 and counting now. Then again, he's a batting all rounder, and an all time great batsman at that, so whatever contribution the team manages to eke out of him should be satisfactory.

 

[ankitj]

More participation from SA fans on the forum is a welcome thing.

 

[Jarquis]

The *only* time Kallis scored a ton and SA beat Australia he was the 3rd highest scorer on his team, and was outscored by Mitchell Johnson.

Kallis has *never* taken more than 3 wickets in an Innings vs Aus.

To be great, you need to beat the greats.

Ponting has played the largest part in a number of victories against SA.

Because cricket teams consist of 1 player, cool story bro (Y)

 

[L Trumper]

I think that part of the reason why Kallis is rated lower than Sobers and Steyn lower than Donald is because the latter players were the first to do what they did. It's a kind of trailblazer effect. Kallis might be as good as Sobers statistically, but Sobers was the first to be that good. Kallis could emulate Sobers, but Sobers was breaking new ground, same with Donald.

I'm not saying that this line of thinking is logical, rather that that is how people think.

No that's not the reason. 5 years from now on most people will rate Steyn ahead of donald.

That is not going to happen with Kallis. But the idea that kallis is doing what sobers did is patently untrue.

On top of my head I can count two instances where Kallis actually won/swung games in favour of SA with his bowling. Taking 2 wkts in every game is not same as dominating an entire series with the ball. Sobers has poor bowling record at start, end of the career. Between that he was in the top 6 or 7 bowlers in that era. As far as their batting is concerned, Sobers was the best batsman of his generation. Even statistically no one at that time even come close to match his batting Avg, SR.

 

[Rasimione]

I just dont understand why people hate kallis. He had to bat within himself to stop our well known 90/4 syndrome early in his carrear. With regard to his bowling, he was used as first change under Hansie and did well i dare say. As soon as his batting got even better, he bowled even less. If you ask any south african captain, they will tell you, kallis the batsmen is a godsend, the bowler a gift. Incase people have forgoten, kallis also used to consitently bowl above 140km/h in the top part of his test span whilst batting at three. If anyone can show me a player to have done that il eat my hat.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Don't think he faced tyson in test cricket, probably in first class.

Yup. The Typhoon famously never played a test v the Windies. Toured there with an EW Swanton XI tho and faced a tyro Sobers in this game. Ironically Sobers dismissed FHT in both innings.

Also came up against each other three times on the Windies '57 tour. Northants v WI, MCC v WI & TN Pearce's XI v WI.

 

[zaremba]

I think that part of the reason why Kallis is rated lower than Sobers and Steyn lower than Donald is because the latter players were the first to do what they did. It's a kind of trailblazer effect. Kallis might be as good as Sobers statistically, but Sobers was the first to be that good. Kallis could emulate Sobers, but Sobers was breaking new ground, same with Donald.

I'm not saying that this line of thinking is logical, rather that that is how people think.

This is a very good post.

 

[zaremba]

Northants v WI,

Ramadhin's match figures are mental:
19-10-20-5
61-27-88-3

 

[Burgey]

I just dont understand why people hate kallis. He had to bat within himself to stop our well known 90/4 syndrome early in his carrear. With regard to his bowling, he was used as first change under Hansie and did well i dare say. As soon as his batting got even better, he bowled even less. If you ask any south african captain, they will tell you, kallis the batsmen is a godsend, the bowler a gift. Incase people have forgoten, kallis also used to consitently bowl above 140km/h in the top part of his test span whilst batting at three. If anyone can show me a player to have done that il eat my hat.

Who said they hate him? It's one thing to say you think player X is better than player Y. It's another to put them in the Harbhajan Singh/ Andrew Symonds class.

 

[uvelocity]

Because cricket teams consist of 1 player, cool story bro (Y)

 

[Jono]

**** post.

 

[uvelocity]

looks like it's contagious

 

[KungFu_Kallis]

I just dont understand why people hate kallis. He had to bat within himself to stop our well known 90/4 syndrome early in his carrear. With regard to his bowling, he was used as first change under Hansie and did well i dare say. As soon as his batting got even better, he bowled even less. If you ask any south african captain, they will tell you, kallis the batsmen is a godsend, the bowler a gift. Incase people have forgoten, kallis also used to consitently bowl above 140km/h in the top part of his test span whilst batting at three. If anyone can show me a player to have done that il eat my hat.

This. Although I don't think many people hate him. He's just copped stick in the past for batting in a bubble and sticking to his strengths and sometimes appearing a bit inflexible. Certain fans will never like that regardless of the amount of runs scored. Trott seems to cop it similar now as well..

 

[Pothas]

Who said they hate him? It's one thing to say you think player X is better than player Y. It's another to put them in the Harbhajan Singh/ Andrew Symonds class.

Yeah no one hates him, certainly on this forum he is worshipped to nauseating degrees by a fair few people.

For most fans (general not on here )in England who have not seen the best of him I think he is just regarded as not particularly exciting, I know I am far more excited about seeing Steyn when I go to the Oval this summer.

 

[marc71178]

I just dont understand why people hate kallis. He had to bat within himself to stop our well known 90/4 syndrome early in his carrear. With regard to his bowling, he was used as first change under Hansie and did well i dare say. As soon as his batting got even better, he bowled even less. If you ask any south african captain, they will tell you, kallis the batsmen is a godsend, the bowler a gift. Incase people have forgoten, kallis also used to consitently bowl above 140km/h in the top part of his test span whilst batting at three. If anyone can show me a player to have done that il eat my hat.

Part of the problem to me is people overstating him, in particular his bowling. Here for example you've said that he did well bowling first change. 82 wickets @ 34.98 is not doing well.

Plus there's the significant minnow bashing element which certainly do a great deal to increase the batting and bowling figures to the extent people are comparing him to players that he cannot hold a candle to. 57.02 and 32.50 look a lot better than 54.41 and 35.42 don't they?

 

[watson]

I think that part of the reason why Kallis is rated lower than Sobers and Steyn lower than Donald is because the latter players were the first to do what they did. It's a kind of trailblazer effect. Kallis might be as good as Sobers statistically, but Sobers was the first to be that good. Kallis could emulate Sobers, but Sobers was breaking new ground, same with Donald.

I'm not saying that this line of thinking is logical, rather that that is how people think.

I agree. However, Sobers is also admired because he could take a bowling attack and throttle it. Kallis is more an accumilator of runs rather than a dominator. Hence, given the chance I'd rather watch Sobers bat any day. In the same way, I'd rather watch Richards over Gomes or Sehwag over Dravid.

 

[Jarquis]

54.41 puts him top of the tree (batting average) when talking about batsmen to have played 20 games since Tendulkar's debut (minnows excluded).

 

[Prince EWS]

I agree. However, Sobers is also admired because he could take a bowling attack and throttle it. Kallis is more an accumilator of runs rather than a dominator. Hence, given the chance I'd rather watch Sobers bat any day. In the same way, I'd rather watch Richards over Gomes or Sehwag over Dravid.

And I'd rather watch Daren Ganga bat than Chris Gayle; I'd never bring that into a debate over who the better batsman was though, if anyone was stupid enough to compare the two on performance.

 

[KungFu_Kallis]

Part of the problem to me is people overstating him, in particular his bowling. Here for example you've said that he did well bowling first change. 82 wickets @ 34.98 is not doing well.

Plus there's the significant minnow bashing element which certainly do a great deal to increase the batting and bowling figures to the extent people are comparing him to players that he cannot hold a candle to. 57.02 and 32.50 look a lot better than 54.41 and 35.42 don't they?

Almost all players have their numbers boosted by "minnow bashing". It's kinda slightly cherry picking to mention Kallis's adjusted stats without also mentioning the other leading players tbf