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Garry Sobers v Imran Khan,Test Cricket:Poll
- Thread starter Teja.
- Start date
smash84
The Tiger King
you've stopped writing long posts which is why I hate you now, you ****
P.S. you were always an abominable creature in any case
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
I guess you were born after 1992.
WindieWeathers
International Regular
Well of course there's only gonna be one winner in my eyes!! 
, imo Sobers has a claim to being the greatest cricket ever, he was just a class above his rivals.
, imo Sobers has a claim to being the greatest cricket ever, he was just a class above his rivals.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Nope, far from it. Imran did not pay a match winning Test innings.
smash84
The Tiger King
Of course. He wasn't in the match fixing group
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
Ok I don't want this to be about semantics. Just to be clear we are on the same page, the topic of match winning ability came up sometime last year in a topic about Sehwag and Sangakkara and this is what I had to say about that. This is how I define match winning ablity. I apologise, I should have been clearer, when I said he won games for Pakistan, I had the 92 final in mind. But even in test cricket he produced knocks from time to time that would fit the criteria I mentioned.
These are performances I would list. Even saving a match falls under the category of match winning ability in my view.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63521.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63331.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63272.html
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Sanz
Hall of Fame Member
Ok in other words you agree that he didn't really play a match winning inning.
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
In other words, I would ask you to read my post again, including the other post I referred to.
L Trumper
State Regular
But where are the match winning innings that you are talking about..
Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
Read
http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/47466-sehwag-vs-sangakkara-batsman-3.html#post2275964
That is how I define match winning ability. If you don't, that is fine, you don't have to consider him a match winner. I stated my reasons as to why I consider him a match winner and I know of enough cricket experts who consider him a match winner superior to Botham, Dev and Hadlee and that is sufficient for me.
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weldone
Hall of Fame Member
From how I interpret your definition of match-winning innings (which I personally think was a very good post of yours), here's my take on the 3 innings:
First one: It can be considered a match-winning inning if you think that bowling out that Aussie batting lineup within 83 overs is easy. It's a marginal call, but I would say it's not easy - not even likely - but yes, very much possible.
Second One: If anything, Abbas and Miandad set up that win, with the help of Imran's superb bowling on a flat deck. An innings-victory wouldn't have been possible without Imran's contribution with the bat, but a victory was looking likely even if Imran didn't make that century (they could have chased down 150-200 in the 4th innings).
Third One: If you consider this one a match-winning century, then most centuries in the 1st innings of a test match are.
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Black_Warrior
Cricketer Of The Year
About the First one against Australia, I saw a documentary once where Ian Chappell was talking about that match and he talked about how Pakistan were 7/3 starting at defeat and it was Imran who promoted himself up the order to save the game.
Second one, I put that up for those who only consider 'centuries in victories'
Third one, if you look at the scorecard, Imran came in at 95/5 against an attack comprising of Marshal, Colin Croft, Sylvester Clarke and Joel Garner. Without his century, Pakistan would have lost that match.
L Trumper
State Regular
Yeah ..That is a quality post. But you are simply giving a new definition, and imran's innings are fitting into that criteria. Besides match saving is not the same as match winning, you can twist it all you want.
The bottom line is, Sobers has very good series with the ball [with 20+ wickets]. Imran as a batsman is a very good one, but not one to dominate a series, or to change course of a match. [For playing back to the wall innings he is the go to guy, but that doesn't necessarily make him a match winning batsman]
Sanz
Hall of Fame Member
Pretty much agree with this.
smash84
The Tiger King
How many 4 or 5 match series did Sobers play over the course of his career?
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
Let's see a list of these experts. Hopefully it'll make more sense than your list of match winnings innings.
L Trumper
State Regular
Around 10 or 11 I'd venture..