*Official* West Indies in India

[Jono]

I think you may be overlooking the amount of inexperience in this WI side, there's a whole group of players in this squad atill learning about their own game, let alone learning about Test cricket. What you get with such inexperience, is inconsistency. Don't think anyone is suggesting WI did well in that first session, and a session so horrific can cost you in Test cricket, but they showed good character in coming back from such a disappointment and managing to get a draw.

As for "They only came close to winning because India deliberately let them", perhaps you need to credit WI for getting in the position they did after they had the better of the exchanges for the first four days. They only nearly gifted India a win becuase their performance dropped horribly in that first session.

They didn't have the better of exchanges after 4 days, only 3. After the 4th day India were more favoured to win the test with the bookies than WI (with the draw obviously being short priced favourite).

But that's neither here nor there, the main point is that saying that WI nearly won the match due to their good cricket is a bit misleading. It was one of those unique aspects of cricket where playing so unbelievably disgracefully bad like the WI did in the 3rd innings gave them a chance of winning because the opposition captain was willing to roll the dice. If Dhoni decided to be a boring bitch and play for a draw, the WI wouldn't have come close.

I understand your point that at various points in this match (and series) WI have done exceedingly well, and they should be acknowledged for it. That is definitely correct. And the fact they held it together yesterday in the last 2 sessions was also a credit to them. But to suggest they nearly won the match because of how well they played is incorrect imo. They nearly won the match because of how awful they batted in the 3rd dig. It's one of the ironies of test cricket.

 

[Jono]

Should have been Ojha walking in ahead of Aaron anyway. It still puzzles me whay you'd send in a debutant ahead of a guy who's been involved in close finishes before.

Yep, biggest "tactical" fault of the day by India. Not Ashwin not running the 2nd (though he still should have tried) or taking the single on the last ball of the previous over (which was the correct thing to do imo).

 

[Shri]

Yep, biggest "tactical" fault of the day by India. Not Ashwin not running the 2nd (though he still should have tried) or taking the single on the last ball of the previous over (which was the correct thing to do imo).

Laxman is known for god like batting with the tail. Even he doesn't let unproven tailenders face a majority of the balls in an over in a tight situation. He takes up 4 balls of an over and lets the tail face 1 or 2 balls at most if the guy at the other end doesn't know how to bat. Now Ashwin is a middle order bat for Tamil Nadu in FC cricket, as a batsman he should have shown better judgement and denied that single so that he had a chance of closing the game off himself.

 

[Jono]

Bringing up Laxman is silly. He has far better control over his strokes and placement to get 2s than Ashwin.

How the hell is Ashwin going to get 4 runs off 6 balls? All they'd do is spread the field, he'd get a single (just like the last ball of the innings) and we'd be back to square one except we'd need 3 off 5 instead of 3 off 6.

 

[Turbinator]

Should have been Ojha walking in ahead of Aaron anyway. It still puzzles me whay you'd send in a debutant ahead of a guy who's been involved in close finishes before.

For all we know, Ojha could've been taking a real big dump.

 

[Furball]

They didn't have the better of exchanges after 4 days, only 3. After the 4th day India were more favoured to win the test with the bookies than WI (with the draw obviously being short priced favourite).

But that's neither here nor there, the main point is that saying that WI nearly won the match due to their good cricket is a bit misleading. It was one of those unique aspects of cricket where playing so unbelievably disgracefully bad like the WI did in the 3rd innings gave them a chance of winning because the opposition captain was willing to roll the dice. If Dhoni decided to be a boring bitch and play for a draw, the WI wouldn't have come close.

I understand your point that at various points in this match (and series) WI have done exceedingly well, and they should be acknowledged for it. That is definitely correct. And the fact they held it together yesterday in the last 2 sessions was also a credit to them. But to suggest they nearly won the match because of how well they played is incorrect imo. They nearly won the match because of how awful they batted in the 3rd dig. It's one of the ironies of test cricket.

Scoring 590 in the first innings played a pretty big part in them having a shot of winning.

 

[Cevno]

You're a brave man to turn down singles with 4 runs to win and 2 wickets in hand.

Not really when the guy at the other end is a tail ender debutant who got a duck in the last innings, while you got a century.

 

[Jono]

Scoring 590 in the first innings played a pretty big part in them having a shot of winning.

Sure. And they deserve credit for that innings. But I just think this whole underdog "what a great performance" chorus (not targeting Zinzan, but his post referring to the populations and David v Goliath etc. is along the lines I'm referring to) is overstated.

Had they batted out the whole first session the game would have been a dead draw. Their absolutely ****house batting opened the game up for both teams. But I don't think we should credit them for that.

On top of that their field settings and general fielding was absolutely shocking.

I honestly think day 5 of that test was more bad than good for WI, but the thrilling finish is painting a bit of a rosy picture for them. A rosier than justified picture imo.

 

[Jono]

Not really when the guy at the other end is a tail ender debutant who got a duck in the last innings, while you got a century.

But what does Ashwin do needing 4 off 6? Hit a boundary? Good luck with the field spread.

He'd have to have taken a single. The same scenario would have occurred.

And I'm glad you mentioned a debutant who made a duck in the first innings... why the **** was he out there ahead of Ojha then?

 

[Cevno]

They didn't have the better of exchanges after 4 days, only 3. After the 4th day India were more favoured to win the test with the bookies than WI (with the draw obviously being short priced favourite).

But that's neither here nor there, the main point is that saying that WI nearly won the match due to their good cricket is a bit misleading. It was one of those unique aspects of cricket where playing so unbelievably disgracefully bad like the WI did in the 3rd innings gave them a chance of winning because the opposition captain was willing to roll the dice. If Dhoni decided to be a boring bitch and play for a draw, the WI wouldn't have come close.

I understand your point that at various points in this match (and series) WI have done exceedingly well, and they should be acknowledged for it. That is definitely correct. And the fact they held it together yesterday in the last 2 sessions was also a credit to them. But to suggest they nearly won the match because of how well they played is incorrect imo. They nearly won the match because of how awful they batted in the 3rd dig. It's one of the ironies of test cricket.

AWTA completely. Gun post.

 

[Cevno]

But what does Ashwin do needing 4 off 6? Hit a boundary? Good luck with the field spread.

He'd have to have taken a single. The same scenario would have occurred.

But giving Aaron the strike for the last over meant that Edwards only had to get 1 yorkers on track with the way he was swinging the bat around to get to the last wicket.

Ashwin should have taken the strike and backed himself to hit a boundary of 6 balls or take 2 doubles and even if he couldn't he had a way better chance of surviving the over than Aaron or Ojha. He scored a century the last innings.

And I'm glad you mentioned a debutant who made a duck in the first innings... why the **** was he out there ahead of Ojha then?

I agree that due to the experience Ojha should have come up, but it's not like he is much better either and Aaron batted above him the last innings too.

 

[Jigga988]

Things to take away from this test series:

Windies are improving, we can now bat for one innings against top teams each test match as opposed to none. Not bad...
Darren Bravo is a huge positive imo, with chanderpaul ageing and no Gayle, we need a guy we can depend on for runs and it would appear he's turning in to that guy
Bowling efforts were okay, somewhat disappointed with bishoo, yes he was playing India in India and the likes of Swann have struggled here, but its not so much the lack of wickets as it was the uninspiring manor in which he bowled... In the first couple matches 50 % of his balls were short and for a guy who isn't the biggest turner of the ball, he should be far more accurate than that. Having said that, he's young and learning his trade, hopefully he can improve by the time Aus come round. Rampaul and Edwards never really had the best conditions to bowl in
I think Sammy allbeit an inexperienced test captain, needs to improve, in that last test the seemers had to come on earlier, Kohli and co. Were doing it so easy and it was only a break, followed by a wide ball that forced the wicket, the ball was reversing and windies needed a win - negative.
Selection issues still plague the team, not sure why Simmons didn't play this series, I still think Brathwaite is too young depsite some runs... I was pleasently surprised with Powell in the third test though, have no clue why he opened in the first test, but after a torrid time in that first test, he showed a bit of capacity to bat. Despite his scratchiness wouldn't have minded seeing Sarwan play, more for the fact he's pretty proven against spin, plus its Aus and Eng coming up, who he loves a few runs against, plus it was clear we were missing sdome experience.
All in all, a decent effort in India with a very inexperienced line up, batting collapses costed us, not to mention India showing some fight in tricky situations.

 

[Furball]

But what does Ashwin do needing 4 off 6? Hit a boundary? Good luck with the field spread.

He'd have to have taken a single. The same scenario would have occurred.

And I'm glad you mentioned a debutant who made a duck in the first innings... why the **** was he out there ahead of Ojha then?

Agree witb Jono. When you need 4 to win, you take every run you can get.

 

[Woodster]

They didn't have the better of exchanges after 4 days, only 3. After the 4th day India were more favoured to win the test with the bookies than WI (with the draw obviously being short priced favourite).

But that's neither here nor there, the main point is that saying that WI nearly won the match due to their good cricket is a bit misleading. It was one of those unique aspects of cricket where playing so unbelievably disgracefully bad like the WI did in the 3rd innings gave them a chance of winning because the opposition captain was willing to roll the dice. If Dhoni decided to be a boring bitch and play for a draw, the WI wouldn't have come close.

I understand your point that at various points in this match (and series) WI have done exceedingly well, and they should be acknowledged for it. That is definitely correct. And the fact they held it together yesterday in the last 2 sessions was also a credit to them. But to suggest they nearly won the match because of how well they played is incorrect imo. They nearly won the match because of how awful they batted in the 3rd dig. It's one of the ironies of test cricket.

The fact India may have been favourites going into the last day was purely due to the time being left in the Test (due to the very ordinary nature of the pitch), that is not to say WI had not played the better cricket to that point, generally a lead of 189 with eight wickets left in the second innings is a pretty strong, and favourable position to be in.

I would agree with GF, I think putting 590 on the board in their first dig sets you up to win a game in a Test match. Sometimes you're in a position where a collapse is not necessarily a bad thing (strangely enough), especially if you have a cautious skipper, because it takes the game along quickly, and due to the strength of their position, they could afford such a shambolic showing on that final morning. Of course ideally, they'd have avoided the collapse, hit a few quick runs and given themselves more breathing space, but had that been the case I doubt whether Dhoni would have tried to chase it down.

Think I'm missing the point on all this praise for Dhoni attempting to chase it down. Surely any side with aspirations of chasing England down as the number one Test side, that have a 2-0 lead against a side that struggle in this format, playing in their own conditions and require just 243 off over 60 overs on a flat deck, would surely try and chase this down without it being too positive ? It is common sense to chase it surely ?

 

[honestbharani]

The fact India may have been favourites going into the last day was purely due to the time being left in the Test (due to the very ordinary nature of the pitch), that is not to say WI had not played the better cricket to that point, generally a lead of 189 with eight wickets left in the second innings is a pretty strong, and favourable position to be in.

I would agree with GF, I think putting 590 on the board in their first dig sets you up to win a game in a Test match. Sometimes you're in a position where a collapse is not necessarily a bad thing (strangely enough), especially if you have a cautious skipper, because it takes the game along quickly, and due to the strength of their position, they could afford such a shambolic showing on that final morning. Of course ideally, they'd have avoided the collapse, hit a few quick runs and given themselves more breathing space, but had that been the case I doubt whether Dhoni would have tried to chase it down.

Think I'm missing the point on all this praise for Dhoni attempting to chase it down. Surely any side with aspirations of chasing England down as the number one Test side, that have a 2-0 lead against a side that struggle in this format, playing in their own conditions and require just 243 off over 60 overs on a flat deck, would surely try and chase this down without it being too positive ? It is common sense to chase it surely ?

The praise is because Dhoni is, in essence, a very defensive captain. He is a very good captain, but a defensive one and this is something most did not seem to expect from him.

 

[Woodster]

The praise is because Dhoni is, in essence, a very defensive captain. He is a very good captain, but a defensive one and this is something most did not seem to expect from him.

Yes I can understand why his decision to chase this is seen as a commendable one due to his past safety-first approach. With this batting line-up though it was always safe, you would have thought, that they would not lose this game.

 

[NasserFan207]

Tbf to West Indies, they bowled damn well on day five, considering they only had two fit bowlers, with Bishoo (the clear wicket taker) on one leg. If they'd taken their catches and hit the stumps they might well have won.

Batting was hilariously bad during that morning session, but it was the same deal every test match for them. One session would take the game away.

 

[Jono]

Think I'm missing the point on all this praise for Dhoni attempting to chase it down. Surely any side with aspirations of chasing England down as the number one Test side, that have a 2-0 lead against a side that struggle in this format, playing in their own conditions and require just 243 off over 60 overs on a flat deck, would surely try and chase this down without it being too positive ? It is common sense to chase it surely ?

Nah I am not praising Dhoni, I think all captains would have gone for the win with a 2-0 lead. But that goes further to my point, that their batting collapse helped the situation but that doesn't mean WI should then be credited for almost winning. Good cricket would have seen a certain draw.

I think we're only slightly disagreeing anyway. WI overall did well in the test, but I don't think they did too much good on day 5. Or at least there was more bad than good. That's my main issue.

 

[honestbharani]

Not to forget most Indian wickets fell to pretty ordinary shots than any real great bowling. I don't think they bowled that well at all, tbh.

 

[Furball]

Nah I am not praising Dhoni, I think all captains would have gone for the win with a 2-0 lead. But that goes further to my point, that their batting collapse helped the situation but that doesn't mean WI should then be credited for almost winning. Good cricket would have seen a certain draw.

I think we're only slightly disagreeing anyway. WI overall did well in the test, but I don't think they did too much good on day 5. Or at least there was more bad than good. That's my main issue.

I agree that the WI played ****house cricket on day 5 but it's one of those occasional quirks in Test cricket that the West Indies' batting collapse actually gave them a better shot of winning than batting well and declaring on 200 or 250 would have done.