Against the best team in the Test circuit at the time, sure. But that doesn't mean he was the best against the best. I'd take Lillee's matches in the WSC, against the WI in the Test arena and the World XI earlier in his career over Imran's claim that you mention. More proof, more batsmen, even better performances.
Exactly so I am not discounting Lillee's stats in the SC. He was quite bad in the SC
Lillee only faced the WI at home and even then his record against the WI at home compared to Imran's record vs WI in Pakistan is still much worse (although not bad overall) during the same period. The only time Lillee faced the WI in WI he went wicketless and was smashed all over the place across 2 innings at over 4 an over
. That is not good at all. 
Like I said you are making stuff up, Statistically Lillee was not the best bowler :-
This is laughable argument. Now you are questioning the quality of batsmen he faced at home ?
Keep Making Stats up. It is funny to see how you choose random numbers (for example he averages less than 24 in such a such instance)
Statistically it does matter against someone like Imran who has more complete record. Lillee Does not have a record in WI either.
Not quite. Best bowling average in 1980's. Gives Marshall and Hadlee a run for their money. And had hardly any holes in his record.
wow. That second link I had never seen earlier. An absolutely impressive record for the decade by pretty much any measure.
And he had that good record against WI, even though the last 3 of his 10 tests against WI were in 1991 where he primarely played as a batsman and not as strike bowler as Wasim and Waqar had taken over those duties.
That record becomes even more ridiculous when you limit it to first 9 years of the decade, removing the one year after Imran returned from retirement. See here
[B]Bowler Matches Wickets Avg SR[/B]
Imran 40 203 16.80 42.57
Marshall 40 227 18.25 42.38
Hadlee 40 233 18.36 45.27
Lillee 40 230 22.40 46.45These stats are fricking awesome. I hadn't seen these 40 match peak stats before. Imran Khan averages less than 17 for 200 wickets. Wow and has a SR comparable to Marshall. Thanks for these stats dude.
When you take into account everything, the number of matches played, wickets taken and the ratios then Lillee is the best. Furthermore, he was lauded as the best by all the players in the tournament, if the averages themselves don't sway you. The only other player that was close in terms of playing as much as him was Roberts; but even then, he was bowling to a much inferior side than Lillee was bowling to - with respect to them bowling against each other's teams.
Er, what?
Those are all real, you can check them yourself.
Once again, you fail to account for what it means to state "X is statistically better than Y". Completeness in a Test record? I agree, Imran has a more complete Test record in that Lillee ventured into WSC and couldn't really have that. So that is why looking at WSC and other matches for Lillee makes sense; and when you do it is puts him ahead by a bit. Between these players, you can't make any sort of gap to definitively say X is better than Y no more than you could say Lara is definitely better than Kallis; but their careers within context and even slightly aided by stats tend to sway most people. As it did for people towards Lillee and for Lara.
Considering how the WI was a haven for fast bowlers I fail to appreciate why that works against Lillee. Even the WI players themselves called Lillee the best. And the fact is, few considered Imran out and out the best.Lillee only faced the WI at home and even then his record against the WI at home compared to Imran's record vs WI in Pakistan is still much worse (although not bad overall) during the same period. The only time Lillee faced the WI in WI he went wicketless and was smashed all over the place across 2 innings at over 4 an over
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
Who was referring just to the 80s?
Haha, what a hypocrite. In one thread Murali being near his career averages proved his long peak was brilliant, yet here it is the opposite.
The bolded is laughable. Agree with the second statement. Imran is top 3 players, ever.
[B] Home Away
[/B] [B] [COLOR="Green"]AVG SR AVG SR[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR="Blue"][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/6295.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling"]Lillee[/URL][/COLOR][/B] 23.73 49.9 24.28 55.9
[B][COLOR="Blue"][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/40560.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling"]Imran[/URL][/COLOR][/B] 19.20 47.0 25.76 59.2
The only place where Lillee has done away from home is in England. That is it. NZ were a minnow in Lillee's time and Lillee is wicketless in 2 innings in the WI going for over 4 runs an over there. His average in Pakistan is 101 and that in SL is 36. See for yourself. Now if you exclude the minnows from Lillee's record then the only place he has done well is at home and in England. Nothing special about that.
Yes, one of the series was in his injury days when he could not bowl in a 4 or 5 test series and his last series there was around the 89 or 90 where he was clearly past it.
Er what? Lillee has the poorest overall average of the lot. He neither had a peak even comparable to others' peaks. The two combined don't help you argue a case for Lillee stastically. It doesn't allow you to say that his stats were affected because of poor run of form at some stage or because his career was too long (which it wasn't). That's why I pulled those stats. Thought it was obvious.
