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Australia - where to from here

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Cutting's not a Test 8. Good eye, decent slogger - pretty similar to Praveen Kumar.
Yeah he definitely shouldn't be at 8, he would be a great number 10 or decent number 9. The question is though, apart from Johnson or O'Keefe who could do a decent job at 8 for Australia from the players currently under consideration?

Any combination is going to look a bit weak if we drop Johnson, keep Cummins (obv) and keep Lyon.
 

Burgey

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Nothing wrong with our team.

Won away on the subcontinent and drew a series in SA.

On the rise.

:ph34r:
 

Spikey

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still sacking everyone ftr


the knock might keep MJ over Siddle but one of them still has to go and I still don't like Watson opening. still meh about haddin staying/going
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Yeah he definitely shouldn't be at 8, he would be a great number 10 or decent number 9. The question is though, apart from Johnson or O'Keefe who could do a decent job at 8 for Australia from the players currently under consideration?

Any combination is going to look a bit weak if we drop Johnson, keep Cummins (obv) and keep Lyon.
It's a shame Copeland's batting hasn't quite delivered in First Class cricket like it should've yet. If he could average close to 20 at 8, which I reckon he's probably got the ability to, he'd make himself a lot more selectable.
 

flibbertyjibber

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It's a shame Copeland's batting hasn't quite delivered in First Class cricket like it should've yet. If he could average close to 20 at 8, which I reckon he's probably got the ability to, he'd make himself a lot more selectable.
What is this? An Aussie side picking a bowler solely because he can bat. They used to slaughter us for doing the same with Giles.:laugh:

To be fair, i'd stick with Johnson and bomb Siddle. Johnson can win matches, has done before will do again. Get another 12 months out of him and it gives Cummins and Copeland time to develop. Such a shame about Harris and his injury record.
 

Howe_zat

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It's a shame Copeland's batting hasn't quite delivered in First Class cricket like it should've yet. If he could average close to 20 at 8, which I reckon he's probably got the ability to, he'd make himself a lot more selectable.
I get the impression that if he could bat he'd only have even less people taking him seriously as a bowler. Would have people calling it a bits-and-pieces selection, invite even more erroneous Andrew McDonald comparisons, etc
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I get the impression that if he could bat he'd only have even less people taking him seriously as a bowler. Would have people calling it a bits-and-pieces selection, invite even more erroneous Andrew McDonald comparisons, etc
Yeah, Butterworth syndrome.
 

howardj

International Coach
Nothing wrong with our team.

Won away on the subcontinent and drew a series in SA.

On the rise.

:ph34r:
My thoughts exactly :ph34r:

Still reckon we could improve the team by punting Johnson, Siddle, Haddin, Ponting and Lyon

For Cutting, Harris, Wade, Marsh and O'Keefe respectively
 

Top_Cat

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Butterworth was only seriously talked about in terms of playing higher when he had that awesome all-round Shield final. Once his batting dropped off, no serious pundit has mentioned him as a ODI or Test player since. Very different situation to if Copeland ups his batting because he's already played a Test on the strength of his bowling alone so will only enhance his case, in my book.
 

Burgey

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My thoughts exactly :ph34r:

Still reckon we could improve the team by punting Johnson, Siddle, Haddin, Ponting and Lyon

For Cutting, Harris, Wade, Marsh and O'Keefe respectively
If Marsh plays I'd want him opening tbh. We desperately need a patient opener (or two). I really want Hughes to make it but he and Watto together at the top is heart attack stuff. At my age I don't need it.

Ponting? Jeez I still don't know. He deserves to go out on his terms but I don't know if we can afford it.

The bowling, ideally I'd have (now) Harris, Cummins, Copeland, Watson, Lyon I think. Really feel for Copeland. He'd have been great on those decks. He could bowl long, tight spells and allow Harris and Cummins a decent rest. If Watto was at four he could bowl more too. Harris always being injured means Dougeh could get a game, but of course he's hurt too ATM.
 

howardj

International Coach
ah, forgot about Copes - insert him instead of Cutting.

I reckon Copes will do his best work on the decks in Australia

Cummins, Harris and Copeland has a nice mix/feel to it
 

adub

International Captain
The selector's will have failed massively if they think that effort is enough to stay the axe. It was a great team win in which everyone from 1-11 made a solid contribution. BUT that's the ****ing point. We showed that you don't needs 'match-winning' performances to win test matches, you need everyone making a contribution. Cummin's 6-fer was an obvious standout, but that was only really required because Watson was injured and Johnson and Siddle were ****.

Which is why Johnson has to go now, and Siddle may as well follow him. We're gambling on the jackpot falling, rather than investing and waiting for the returns to accumulate. Cummins himself is a symptom of this thinking. Hey great it paid off this time, and for sure he's exciting, but he's 18. It isn't always going to be nice and easy like this. There are hard days ahead and he will need to adapt and grow into the bowler that can perform in all conditions. What we don't need to is have guys like Johnson who could bowl a match winning spell, but is more likely to bowl a match losing one. If you want to lose your shirt backing long shots, go to the track. What we need are guys who you can rely on to chip in with 2 or 3 wickets almost every time they bowl. 4 or 5 of those guys in a side will take the 20 wickets. They'll each have their days out and get a bag, and sometimes they'll go without, but they'll always contribute something. Johnson and Siddle contribute nothing but 4 balls far too often. Their diamonds, just ain't worth all the rocks you have to endure.

The same deal with the batting. Ponting was once a prince who could score a century and win the match for you, but those days are long gone, along with the champion side he led. This 50 was what he should have been contributing for years now, but sadly has rarely managed. I think Khawaja showed that even if he's not going to score 40 centuries, he is going to be a much more consistent contributor over the next few years than Ricky will. Marsh has started in the same fashion (despite my ongoing doubts) and I've no doubt that Warner is ready to come in and will also make more regular contributions than Ponting will be able to manage. For that reason he has no place in the side going forward.

We've been hamstrung by Hilditch's high stakes gambling method over the past few years where he's stuck too long with underachievers as he prayed for them to pay out a jackpot like they once did, and random pig in a poke selections where some left field nuffy was picked despite no record to hang it on and then promptly discarded 1,2 or 3 tests later for the next fingers-crossed pick. The useless prick may have jagged a winner finally on his last roll of the dice, but that doesn't absolve him from blame for the wreckage he has wrought.

What we need now is simply to bring together the best, and most consistent First Class cricketers in the country, whilst moving on from proven failures, or former champs that have seriously passed their prime. Put them in a structure where they know where they stand and that uses regular A team matches to bring new guys up to standard and keep the pressure on the incumbents. No more long shot selections, or forgiving 10 crap tests because they had a day out 3 years ago. We don't need to find 6 ATG's next week. We need to put a squad together that will turn up every time, usually win when they click and usually manage to hang on to a draw when they don't because like at the Wanderers everyone contributed something and we don't have to carry guys because one day they might hit the jackpot and turn in a match winning performance.
 

adub

International Captain
If Marsh plays I'd want him opening tbh. We desperately need a patient opener (or two). I really want Hughes to make it but he and Watto together at the top is heart attack stuff. At my age I don't need it.

Ponting? Jeez I still don't know. He deserves to go out on his terms but I don't know if we can afford it.

The bowling, ideally I'd have (now) Harris, Cummins, Copeland, Watson, Lyon I think. Really feel for Copeland. He'd have been great on those decks. He could bowl long, tight spells and allow Harris and Cummins a decent rest. If Watto was at four he could bowl more too. Harris always being injured means Dougeh could get a game, but of course he's hurt too ATM.
Ponting's had enough chances to go out on his own terms, including this particular tests where he can say with deserved pride that he helped win the test and save the series. If he misses the boat then that's his own fault. Player's only deserve to go out on their own terms when their performances are still acceptable. Once you drop below that threshold you are owed nothing. I'd argue pretty strongly that Ponting passed that threshold in the last Ashes and last gasp 50 before the axe drops shouldn't be anywhere near enough to save him. Sentimentality doesn't win Test matches.
 

adub

International Captain
ah, forgot about Copes - insert him instead of Cutting.

I reckon Copes will do his best work on the decks in Australia

Cummins, Harris and Copeland has a nice mix/feel to it
With no Watson bowling Harris is too big a risk. Also what are the odds of Harris lasting a full summer (or even back to back tests) - and conversely do we really want to take the risk of breaking Cummins by playing him in 6 tests in two months? These two I'd be playing in the same spot. Say one test each against NZ. Harris for Melbourne, Cummins for Sydney, both for Perth, and play Adelaide by ear (hoping like hell Watson is well and truly able to bowl plenty of overs on that road). That way I reckon we get great value out of both Harris for the last bit of his career and Cummins early on when we're still building a body that can last a 5 test series without breaking.

I reckon we need to find a third seamer. If fit I'd go Dougeh every time, but with him out of the way Pattinson might be in the frame, Siddle might hang on, or they could go with Cutting. Starc is still a long way down the list for mine despite his excellent work in Brisbane.

I'd be sorely tempted to go with Cutting simply because I'm sick of Siddle and I don't think Pattinson has yet proven himself worthy. Looks a good aggressive change bowler who's in good form and can blast some runs from No.9.
 

adub

International Captain
new head coach being announced 1.15pm today.
Money's on Mickey ****ing Arthur whose first words will be how Mitchell ****ing Johnson is a match winner and needs to be in the side and how excited he is at the prospect of working with Ponting to claim back the Ashes.
 

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