Predict Ricky Ponting's test future.

[Furball]

Thing about Ponting is a year or so ago he looked set for a big one a few times then gave it away with a silly shot. He doesn't even look like he might score big runs any more, the last few innings I've seen from him have been scratchy as hell.

 

[Ruckus]

Yeah that's true, there was a fairly lengthy period there where he looked technically as good as ever imo, but was probably letting mind games/concentration issues get in the way of getting a big score...now though even technically he is looking quite suss.

I thought in the Ashes as well, in his first innings he came in looking very good and confident, but with each early dismissal his technique detoriorated badly. I'm certain there is a significant mental component to his problems though, and probably the real root cause behind his technical issues he is having recently. It's no suprise that in the Ashes his only proper score came in a pressure free situation. And in that 50 or so he scored, he looked positively good imo. Same as for the double against Pak. The 89 or whatever he scored in the next innings after that was sublime, and was probably the result of having a temporary increase in confidence again. I honestly think more than slowing reflexes or anything, Ponting's problem is to do with concentation/confidence or something similar...and I think that problem is causing his technique to waver.

As much as I think Ian Chappell's assertion that Ponting has just been 'unlucky' is bull**** for the most part, I wouldn't be suprised if there was a period where he did get a few good balls/unlucky dismisalls in a row, and that could quite conceivably put some doubt into his mind.

 

[Top_Cat]

Maintain he's hitting them well. It's a bunch of other stuff that's going wrong and he's developed a bad habit or two, as pointed out by Bencheh. Whether he will get (or deserves) a long enough run to correct them (if he's willing/able) is a separate issue too.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't know if the fact his Newlands dismissals were "getting Ponting early 101" is good or bad news for him.

He's always had the technical tic that his head doesn't get in line and falls over to the off side early on, so one could say there's no news here, but equally as one ages (& I speak as one of nearly exactly his vintage) the reflexes and the eyes are the most noticeable deteriorations. Stamina and strength are pretty much still there, but speed...

Given he's 37 on 19th Dec he's unlikely to have the hand/eye he had at 27, so it could be he can't quite compensate for his idiosyncracies as once he could.

You pays your selectors and they makes their choice...

 

[centurymaker]

Thing about Ponting is a year or so ago he looked set for a big one a few times then gave it away with a silly shot. He doesn't even look like he might score big runs any more, the last few innings I've seen from him have been scratchy as hell.

That's kinda like tendulkar's. In 2004-2005 he looked ok. In 2006, however, he looked finished, although injuries contributed to it a fair bit.

As for Ponting's decline, I think it all started off with ishant sharma troubling him in 07/08, and from there onwards he gradually regressed and now looks out of sorts. I feel that years of cricket has taken it's toll on his mind, and with each failure he has progressively lost more confidence, which happens all the time even in long series. For instance, if a batsman starts off poorly in a 4/5 test series, it becomes increasingly more difficult for him to return to his best with each failure from there onwards.

 

[Flem274*]

Ponting just had a weird tendency to get out to any teenager who rolled their arm over tbh.

 

[centurymaker]

Ponting just had a weird tendency to get out to any teenager who rolled their arm over tbh.

nah thats tendulkar to be honest. ponting just had a tendency to throw his wicket away.

Maintain he's hitting them well. It's a bunch of other stuff that's going wrong and he's developed a bad habit or two, as pointed out by Bencheh. Whether he will get (or deserves) a long enough run to correct them (if he's willing/able) is a separate issue too.

The thing you have to look at is how much more and how much longer he could potentially contribute to the team batting-wise, if he returned to a decent form ; 1 to 1.5 years at an avg of 45?
Is that enough to not try out a few young batsmen to find one who can do well enough at home and has potential that he can work with and improve and, therefore, add value to the team for much much longer.
In tendulkar's case, he was what 33 in 2006, so he had potentially a number of years ahead of him....hence it wasn't a bad move to persevere with him.

 

[uvelocity]

If Ponting were Indian he'd be given a longer leash.

If Ricky had any longer leash he'd be playing for India ffs. The difference between he and Taylor is that tub was a gun skipper, and we were winning.

 

[Top_Cat]

The thing you have to look at is how much more and how much longer he could potentially contribute to the team batting-wise, if he returned to a decent form ; 1 to 1.5 years at an avg of 45?
Is that enough to not try out a few young batsmen to find one who can do well enough at home and has potential that he can work with and improve and, therefore, add value to the team for much much longer.
In tendulkar's case, he was what 33 in 2006, so he had potentially a number of years ahead of him....hence it wasn't a bad move to persevere with him.

It's a tough balance to get right (persevering with an older gun vs developing a new one) and, tbh, as bad as Ponting's form has been, there's not exactly a plethora of bats in the Aussie FC system putting pressure on his place.

 

[Spark]

Only needs one in theory, though.

 

[Furball]

It's a tough balance to get right (persevering with an older gun vs developing a new one) and, tbh, as bad as Ponting's form has been, there's not exactly a plethora of bats in the Aussie FC system putting pressure on his place.

If Hughes had gunned it in England, do you think that the selectors would have been less reluctant to replace Ponting with Khawaja?

 

[howardj]

I like the line in the paper today...we're losing with him, so we can sure afford to lose without him

This guy has to get the chop.

If the roles were reversed and this was the Pommies (retaining a 37 year old who has averaged in the 30s for the last two years, when the team is getting lapped even with him in it) we would be laughing our heads off at them.

Now we're the one's looking pathetic.

 

[adub]

I like the line in the paper today...we're losing with him, so we can sure afford to lose without him.

Yeah, that's exactly the point. Better to lose with a young guy who'll use the experience to become a top class player for the next decade than a guy who'll use the experience to write a quasi-tragic final chapter to his memoirs.

[recurring nightmare] Just imagine in the next test he hooks one straight down deep backward squares throat before scoring but gets dropped and goes on to score a double hundred... [/recurring nightmare]

 

[Spark]

tbf I wouldn't mind that at all from a selfish pov, because the Hobart double + partnership with Clarke was and still is one of my favourite recent cricketing memories. was just great to watch. a hark back to happier days.

 

[Ruckus]

tbf I wouldn't mind that at all from a selfish pov, because the Hobart double + partnership with Clarke was and still is one of my favourite recent cricketing memories. was just great to watch. a hark back to happier days.

Yeah, there is nothing more I'd love to see than Ponting hit a few tons again, when he gets going he is probably my favourite batsman to watch. Unfortunately though, it's just been too long and any hopes of an idealistic finish to his test career should be put aside very soon in favour of what's best for the team.

 

[adub]

tbf I wouldn't mind that at all from a selfish pov, because the Hobart double + partnership with Clarke was and still is one of my favourite recent cricketing memories. was just great to watch. a hark back to happier days.

Yeah it's just the two year free pass that it earns him that is the problem. Much like Johnson getting wickets in Perth. The enjoyment of the moment was not worth the pain that ensued.

 

[Top_Cat]

If Hughes had gunned it in England, do you think that the selectors would have been less reluctant to replace Ponting with Khawaja?

Really don't know. Tough question.

 

[ganeshran]

He will hit form against India

 

[Ruckus]

Langer:

"We've got to be sensible about whether the guys you leave out or the changes you make are going to be replaced by someone better," Langer said. "Some might argue we've got nothing to lose and anything could be better. Well, maybe, but someone like Ricky Ponting has not only got 12,500 Test runs but his influence in the team is unbelievable. He's a really tough case. That's why he's working hard. At the moment, in my opinion it's really important Ricky Ponting is in this Australian cricket team."

"He's human," Langer said. "He'll hate me to say this, but I've seen McGrath, Steve Waugh, Matthew Hayden, Adam Gilchrist. They went through it. I love seeing that: they're human. I thought it was just me and the nuffies who weren't very good, who had self-doubts. He knows. He's a very grounded person. He knows how the system works better than anyone: you've got to score runs to stay in the team. He's determined to do that.

"No, he's not making as many runs as anyone would like at the moment. But he is an incredibly important part of this team. I say that without any hesitation."

Is he that important to the team though? Obviously if he hit his stride, he would be, but if he the continues the way he is going now does he really provide enough other stuff to justify his place? I'm not sure about that...It might be a situation where if his own form is bad, it has a detrimental effect on the team, more than just to do with the fact he isn't getting runs. A lot of the players in the side really look up to him, and I'm not sure whether him getting out so often would increase the other players sense of responsibility, or decrease it. It could almost give the other batsman a false sense of security knowing that if they get out "it doesn't matter as much because Ponting failed as well".

 

[Furball]

Langer:

"We've got to be sensible about whether the guys you leave out or the changes you make are going to be replaced by someone better," Langer said. "Some might argue we've got nothing to lose and anything could be better. Well, maybe, but someone like Ricky Ponting has not only got 12,500 Test runs but his influence in the team is unbelievable. He's a really tough case. That's why he's working hard. At the moment, in my opinion it's really important Ricky Ponting is in this Australian cricket team."

"He's human," Langer said. "He'll hate me to say this, but I've seen McGrath, Steve Waugh, Matthew Hayden, Adam Gilchrist. They went through it. I love seeing that: they're human. I thought it was just me and the nuffies who weren't very good, who had self-doubts. He knows. He's a very grounded person. He knows how the system works better than anyone: you've got to score runs to stay in the team. He's determined to do that.

"No, he's not making as many runs as anyone would like at the moment. But he is an incredibly important part of this team. I say that without any hesitation."

Is he that important to the team though? Obviously if he hit his stride, he would be, but if he the continues the way he is going now does he really provide enough other stuff to justify his place? I'm not sure about that...It might be a situation where if his own form is bad, it has a detrimental effect on the team, more than just to do with the fact he isn't getting runs. A lot of the players in the side really look up to him, and I'm not sure whether him getting out so often would increase the other players sense of responsibility, or decrease it. It could almost give the other batsman a false sense of security knowing that if they get out "it doesn't matter as much because Ponting failed as well".

All that really says to me is that Langer should be nowhere near the current setup if Australia are to move forward.