Pitch Bitch.

[Son Of Coco]

Obviously this question isn't addressed to me, but seam movement is almost by definition random. Cutters are due to spin imparted on the ball and are not the same as seam movement.

Interesting. And to think that when I held the ball with the seam pointed in towards fine leg, bowled seam up without imparting side spin, and the ball actually went in the direction that the seam was aiming, that I thought I was doing that. Turns out it was luck. Likewise when I bowled with the seam the other way and it jagged away.

Are you sure you're not confusing the spin on the ball after it has pitched with spin you think is imparted beforehand? Cause I can almost guarantee you that there aren't many bowlers who impart side-spin frequently to try to get it to move the way they want it to. Watch McGrath - the seam is almost always perfect. Watch anyone who bowls and gets it to move around a bit. They'll have a natural seam position which will see the ball move one way more than the other more often than not. Good bowlers can still move it both ways though.

When I grew up a ball that seamed away or cut away was the same thing too. And if you rolled you fingers across the ball to get it to move it just meant you weren't very good.

 

[Daemon]

Are you sure?

Yes.

Like what was mentioned above, cutters are essentially bowling off/leg breaks at pace. Seam movement is unpredictable, random and a batsmen has no idea where the ball is going to go after pitching. He has to cope with it in similar fashion as how you cope with uneven bounce; play late.

It might seem odd 'playing late' to a 145kph bowler but it is entirely possible. The delivery that got Watson out in the 2nd dig iirc is an example of a batsmen picking up the length and going for a big booming drive instinctively rather than playing the ball late and right under his nose

 

[smash84]

Interesting. And to think that when I held the ball with the seam pointed in towards fine leg, bowled seam up without imparting side spin, and the ball actually went in the direction that the seam was aiming, that I thought I was doing that. Turns out it was luck. Likewise when I bowled with the seam the other way and it jagged away.

Are you sure you're not confusing the spin on the ball after it has pitched with spin you think is imparted beforehand? Cause I can almost guarantee you that there aren't many bowlers who impart side-spin frequently to try to get it to move the way they want it to. Watch McGrath - the seam is almost always perfect. Watch anyone who bowls and gets it to move around a bit. They'll have a natural seam position which will see the ball move one way more than the other more often than not. Good bowlers can still move it both ways though.

When I grew up a ball that seamed away or cut away was the same thing too. And if you rolled you fingers across the ball to get it to move it just meant you weren't very good.

haha......awta SOC.....gun post

 

[Son Of Coco]

As I said above, I don't think it's as random as you guys believe it to be. As well as not agreeing with the online CW definition of 'cutters' and 'seamers'.

There's a reason a batsman is told to watch the ball.

 

[Jarquis]

I agree with everything you've said about seam movement SOC. But rather than not being good, I've always understood cutters to be used for a change of pace as rolling your fingers down the side of the ball takes away from moving the ball towards the batsman (obvz).

 

[Son Of Coco]

I agree with everything you've said about seam movement SOC. But rather than not being good, I've always understood cutters to be used for a change of pace as rolling your fingers down the side of the ball takes away from moving the ball towards the batsman (obvz).

Yeah you're right, I was exaggerating a bit when I said people who do that aren't any good. Although if they rely on that solely to get any movement then maybe so. It is used a lot when you're bowling a slower ball or even to get the ball to go the opposite way to the way you normally move it when you have a natural seam position that doesn't let you move it the other way easily.

If a bloke rolled his fingers across the ball every ball though I used to start to question his parenting

 

[Daemon]

Interesting. And to think that when I held the ball with the seam pointed in towards fine leg, bowled seam up without imparting side spin, and the ball actually went in the direction that the seam was aiming, that I thought I was doing that. Turns out it was luck. Likewise when I bowled with the seam the other way and it jagged away.

Are you sure you're not confusing the spin on the ball after it has pitched with spin you think is imparted beforehand? Cause I can almost guarantee you that there aren't many bowlers who impart side-spin frequently to try to get it to move the way they want it to. Watch McGrath - the seam is almost always perfect. Watch anyone who bowls and gets it to move around a bit. They'll have a natural seam position which will see the ball move one way more than the other more often than not. Good bowlers can still move it both ways though.

No clue. I'm trying to dig up a video atm with Ian Botham saying that there is no bowler in the world who can tell you which way he's going to seam it, can't seem to find it though.

 

[Son Of Coco]

All due respect to Botham, but if he said that he's wrong.

Edit: A fine example is McGrath bowling to Warner in the All Stars (I think?) Twenty20 match. Nibbled it away from him and had him caught after saying he'd do exactly that.

 

[Daemon]

I think that natural action may have something to do with it, Asif for example nearly always brought the ball back in to the right handers instead of the other way round. Whether it was intentional or just a result of continuously pitching the ball on the seam at an angle that came naturally to him, that's for you to decide. If he could do it intentionally he'd do it both ways all the time I'd think.

Anyways, interesting discussion. I don't have the expertise to further my side of the argument so I'm going to stop before I say something stupid. I don't think I'm completely wrong though

 

[silentstriker]

The whole point of hitting the ball on the seam is that it's random and thus hard to play.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah if I aim to land a ball on the seam I can't tell you which way it will go until it moves.

That might be because I'm hopeless though.

 

[silentstriker]

The only way you could predict is if you controlled exactly which part of the seam hits the pitch (the seams on a cricket ball are not perfectly even and neither is the ball itself), the speed, the angle, and the exact spot on the pitch (pitch isn't even either). Way too many variables - even a computer would not be able to do it with great accuracy if you only gave it the information available at time of release. Id have to go with Botham - if anyone claims otherwise, I'd like to see them show it in a controlled enviornment. Leg and off cutters are different and most times people talk about swing when they talk about movement away and towards a batsman.

 

[benchmark00]

The whole point of hitting the ball on the seam is that it's random and thus hard to play.

Ah, no.

The ball will move towards the angle of the seam. Your wrist action will dictate what angle the seam is directed in. If you angle the seam towards leg slip to a right hander, and it hits the seam, it will produce seam movement inwards.

 

[Daemon]

a..a...serious benchmark post..?

Always thought these were a rumour

 

[benchmark00]

Will single handedly end all you ****s.

 

[silentstriker]

Ah, no.

The ball will move towards the angle of the seam. Your wrist action will dictate what angle the seam is directed in. If you angle the seam towards leg slip to a right hander, and it hits the seam, it will produce seam movement inwards.

You are talking about cutters where you would angle the seam and roll your fingers?

I am strictly speaking about hitting the ball and bowling with an upright seam.

 

[benchmark00]

No I am not. You don't roll your fingers across the ball to get seam movement. You just need the seam on the appropriate angle.

 

[Son Of Coco]

The whole point of hitting the ball on the seam is that it's random and thus hard to play.

The only way you could predict is if you controlled exactly which part of the seam hits the pitch (the seams on a cricket ball are not perfectly even and neither is the ball itself), the speed, the angle, and the exact spot on the pitch (pitch isn't even either). Way too many variables - even a computer would not be able to do it with great accuracy if you only gave it the information available at time of release. Id have to go with Botham - if anyone claims otherwise, I'd like to see them show it in a controlled enviornment. Leg and off cutters are different and most times people talk about swing when they talk about movement away and towards a batsman.

Ahh, no, no and no (and maybe another no just for good measure )

As Benchmark said, you control where the seam is pointed and that in turn dictates which way the ball will move off the seam. It mightn't move every single time, but if you are consistent with hitting the seam then it will at least some of the time.

If you're using your hand to impart sideways spin on the ball at pace (what the uninitiated call 'cutters' ) then it's equally random as if the ball doesn't land on the seam it's not going to move. By bowling with the seam pointed where you want it to go and bowling with a decent action you have a much greater chance of actually hitting it and achieving the outcome you want.

This is not your newfangled sciency hoo ha SS...this is what actually happens when you bowl a cricket ball with the seam up

 

[Son Of Coco]

No I am not. You don't roll your fingers across the ball to get seam movement. You just need the seam on the appropriate angle.

Yes, yes, yes. And yes.


It's that simple really.

 

[Daemon]

Ahh, no, no and no (and maybe another no just for good measure )

As Benchmark said, you control where the seam is pointed and that in turn dictates which way the ball will move off the seam. It mightn't move every single time, but if you are consistent with hitting the seam then it will at least some of the time.

If you're using your hand to impart sideways spin on the ball at pace (what the uninitiated call 'cutters' ) then it's equally random as if the ball hits the smooth part of the ball it's not going to move. By bowling with the seam pointed where you want it to go and bowling with a decent action you have a much greater chance of actually hitting it and achieving the outcome you want.

This is not your newfangled sciency hoo ha SS...this is what actually happens when you bowl a cricket ball with the seam up

Isn't this what I said earlier..? That there is luck involved but to a lesser extent because you have to be able to pitch the ball on the seam consistently