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***Official*** Australia in South Africa
- Thread starter Spark
- Start date
Furball
Evil Scotsman
I wouldn't call the West Indies attack a dubious one.
aussie tragic
International Captain
If Marsh is injured for next Test, despite all the talk, I can only see minimal change?
That would be Usman for Marsh at #3 and Copeland in for Siddle. I'd rather Siddle than Johnson, however that leaves a very long tail given our current batting woes
I can't see Cummins in yet as he would weaken the tail even more....and is he really ready for SA with only 9 FC Wkts @ 46.33 ffs
For the first Test against NZ however, we can do many changes
Lyon maybe considered unlucky, but we need a # 8 and it can't be Johnson
ummm, if Warner comes into the squad as cover and Marsh passes fit after all, maybe we could go with the top 6 above
That would be Usman for Marsh at #3 and Copeland in for Siddle. I'd rather Siddle than Johnson, however that leaves a very long tail given our current batting woes
I can't see Cummins in yet as he would weaken the tail even more....and is he really ready for SA with only 9 FC Wkts @ 46.33 ffs
For the first Test against NZ however, we can do many changes
- D. Warner
- U. Khawaja
- S. Marsh
- S. Watson
- M. Clarke
- M. Hussey
- M. Wade
- N. Hauritz (or S. O'Keefe if not fit)
- R. Harris
- T. Copeland
- D. Bollinger
- P. Cummins
Lyon maybe considered unlucky, but we need a # 8 and it can't be Johnson
ummm, if Warner comes into the squad as cover and Marsh passes fit after all, maybe we could go with the top 6 above
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adub
International Captain
Poor old Hughes can't buy love can he? The simple fact is bar the pensioners (Rogers, Jaques and Kat) he is so far and away the best opener in the Shield it's not funny. He's a tough little SOB and he'll make it. He might end up a bit like Langer in that he'll be in and out of the side a few times before he cements his spot but cement it he will and be handing out the servings of humble pie by the cart load. His dismissals were far from the softest in the game. He does need another score to back up his ton (2 innings ago), but he should be a lock for a bit longer. If he hasn't made runs after the Kiwi tests then sure send him back to the Shield, but not before. Warner is coming through now, but I reckon he takes Watson's spot first up, not Hughes'.
Watson's problem isn't really going too hard or too soft. It's going down the wrong line. He gets hit on the pads too much. With that big stride he often commits too soon and is a massive lb candidate. He's been out lb in exactly 1/3 of his test innings. That must be near some sort of record. Add in the 9 bowleds and he is out 1 in every 2 innings to bowled or lb. You can't be an opener and have that sort of deficiency against straight balls. I don't know if moving him to 4 will solve this problem, but I don't think we should **** with 5&6 at this time as that is part of the line up that is working, and I can't see the point in playing him at 3. It would hardly give him any time for a break after bowling either as he has to pad up with the openers. 4 means he can relax a bit maybe cop a bit of a massage or whatever else they do, but take his mind off things at least until the 1st wicket falls. I can see him maybe playing as a bit of a Mark Waugh type no.4 in that he probably won't make BIG hundreds and frustrate by scoring good looking 30s, but he'll make regular runs and average low 40s. With his bowling that will be more than enough.
In a perfect world Warner would have the rest of the summer to confirm his arrival, but it's an imperfect world. He's got a tight technique, has shown the ability to be patient when required, and can destroy an attack in an hour if he gets on top. He has absolutely no self doubt, and is in great form. Might as well strike whilst the iron's hot. Equally Uzi could have dropped his bundle after SL, but he came back to NSW and scored one day and Shield tons in his only two games to prove he's still the best top order bat not in the side. He should also come in (and obviously will with Marsh).
As for Marsh I am certainly one of the "fools" who doubted him. No argument he has started out great, but one swallow doesn't make a summer. After three tests he has 284 runs with 1 ton, 1 50, 1 duck and an average of 56.80. Two of those tests were on Lankan roads against the Lankan attack. Another player in the side after three tests had 415 runs with 2 tons, 1 50, 1 duck and an average of 69.16. And none of those runs were on roads or against the combined might of Welegedara, Lakmal and Eranga. Of course every time that guy doesn't make 50 these days the peanut gallery is calling for his papers to be stamped.
Jus saying. It can turn to **** pretty quick. There's no question he has looked the goods and his 44 was quality, but he has not yet proven much. Certainly not enough to think we have a No.3 locked in for the next 5 years. My problem with Marsh was not just his average (which is very average), but also his fitness and the fact he hasn't failed to break each summer since 05/06. Three tests into his career and he's broken again. Jus saying. Again. I'd love nothing more to be wrong on Marsh and have him play the next 60 tests without missing a day and scoring 5000 runs at 52, but I wouldn't bet on it happening either.
I stand by my call that we have improved since the Ashes, but clearly not as far as I'd hoped. I thought maybe taking the (C) from Ponting would allow him to get his mojo back and Watson's issues with opening might be hidden for a while longer, and maybe we could even carry Johnson with Harris in the side and Siddle looking like he may have figured out bowling full. I was wrong about these things, and with Haddin seemingly lost the plot we still have plenty of work to do.
Watson's problem isn't really going too hard or too soft. It's going down the wrong line. He gets hit on the pads too much. With that big stride he often commits too soon and is a massive lb candidate. He's been out lb in exactly 1/3 of his test innings. That must be near some sort of record. Add in the 9 bowleds and he is out 1 in every 2 innings to bowled or lb. You can't be an opener and have that sort of deficiency against straight balls. I don't know if moving him to 4 will solve this problem, but I don't think we should **** with 5&6 at this time as that is part of the line up that is working, and I can't see the point in playing him at 3. It would hardly give him any time for a break after bowling either as he has to pad up with the openers. 4 means he can relax a bit maybe cop a bit of a massage or whatever else they do, but take his mind off things at least until the 1st wicket falls. I can see him maybe playing as a bit of a Mark Waugh type no.4 in that he probably won't make BIG hundreds and frustrate by scoring good looking 30s, but he'll make regular runs and average low 40s. With his bowling that will be more than enough.
In a perfect world Warner would have the rest of the summer to confirm his arrival, but it's an imperfect world. He's got a tight technique, has shown the ability to be patient when required, and can destroy an attack in an hour if he gets on top. He has absolutely no self doubt, and is in great form. Might as well strike whilst the iron's hot. Equally Uzi could have dropped his bundle after SL, but he came back to NSW and scored one day and Shield tons in his only two games to prove he's still the best top order bat not in the side. He should also come in (and obviously will with Marsh).
As for Marsh I am certainly one of the "fools" who doubted him. No argument he has started out great, but one swallow doesn't make a summer. After three tests he has 284 runs with 1 ton, 1 50, 1 duck and an average of 56.80. Two of those tests were on Lankan roads against the Lankan attack. Another player in the side after three tests had 415 runs with 2 tons, 1 50, 1 duck and an average of 69.16. And none of those runs were on roads or against the combined might of Welegedara, Lakmal and Eranga. Of course every time that guy doesn't make 50 these days the peanut gallery is calling for his papers to be stamped.
Jus saying. It can turn to **** pretty quick. There's no question he has looked the goods and his 44 was quality, but he has not yet proven much. Certainly not enough to think we have a No.3 locked in for the next 5 years. My problem with Marsh was not just his average (which is very average), but also his fitness and the fact he hasn't failed to break each summer since 05/06. Three tests into his career and he's broken again. Jus saying. Again. I'd love nothing more to be wrong on Marsh and have him play the next 60 tests without missing a day and scoring 5000 runs at 52, but I wouldn't bet on it happening either.
I stand by my call that we have improved since the Ashes, but clearly not as far as I'd hoped. I thought maybe taking the (C) from Ponting would allow him to get his mojo back and Watson's issues with opening might be hidden for a while longer, and maybe we could even carry Johnson with Harris in the side and Siddle looking like he may have figured out bowling full. I was wrong about these things, and with Haddin seemingly lost the plot we still have plenty of work to do.
I don't think we should be totally dismissive of someone like Chris Rogers getting a run against New Zealand despite his age.
Remember this is a completely new selection panel, and that the Argus Report instructs them to reward results above other considerations (ie age). Given how jittery the batting has looked at times over the past two years I think it'd be perfectly justified to pick someone as technically sound and mentally reliable as Rogers, even if he is only going to be around for a few seasons.
Remember this is a completely new selection panel, and that the Argus Report instructs them to reward results above other considerations (ie age). Given how jittery the batting has looked at times over the past two years I think it'd be perfectly justified to pick someone as technically sound and mentally reliable as Rogers, even if he is only going to be around for a few seasons.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
He doesn't. I was just speaking to his comment - it's something Sehwag would believe. Mentality wise, not how they implement their game.
howardj
International Coach
I agree that we've improved, and I think we need to remember that like recovering drug addicts, there will be relapses but that itself is part of the recovery process.
The concern for me in this game though as in Melbourne was the lack of resolve shown when the blow torch was applied.
I'm convinced some of our guys view difficult conditions as a get out of jail free card (they figure they can blaze away, and if they get out...they use the conditions as a fall back).
Ruckus
International Captain
I think the the main cause of the second innings collapse was probably due to most of the team going in with a very lax mentality - they had just bowled SA out for <100 and were probably feeling extremely happy with themselves and underestimated how difficult it would be to bat out there. Then once a few wickets tumbled, the rest simply panicked. Really amateur stuff all round, and you'd expect the experienced players to keep calm and know the game isn't over until the last ball.
NUFAN
Y no Afghanistan flag
Very interesting that you rather Siddle but would pick Johnson due to his batting! Johnson since January 1 2010 averages 11.93 with the bat. In those 28 innings he has gotten out for a duck 9 times and made 2 50's.If Marsh is injured for next Test, despite all the talk, I can only see minimal change?
That would be Usman for Marsh at #3 and Copeland in for Siddle. I'd rather Siddle than Johnson, however that leaves a very long tail given our current batting woes
I can't see Cummins in yet as he would weaken the tail even more....and is he really ready for SA with only 9 FC Wkts @ 46.33 ffs
Siddle on the other hand who is in solid batting form, is averaging just over 20 in both 2010 and 2011. Also the fact that Siddle puts a higher price on his wicket, means that it's crazy to pick Johnson due to his batting!
i think if Copeland were included, he good a serviceable job at 8 with Siddle coming in at 9. Lyon and Harris could fight out ten and jack. It's not the worst tail ever.
Spikey
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yeah that's pretty much how i feel. he'll be out of the aus a game most likely, unless they fly him home before the end of the test match
