***Official*** Australia in South Africa

[NUFAN]

this. And no excuses for "Clarke is no good at four." I don't give a **** (and don't blame him there very much this test.) But the batsmen need to show some mother****ing ticker for ****s sake. Weak as piss.



Fools said Marsh had a poor FC record. Didn't convert starts, not enough hundreds blah blah. Fergie has a damn good technique, have seen him play some lovely knocks, dripping with talent. Whatever he is missing there in FC cricket at SA, we need to give him. Bit of tongue in the ear or a grab on the butt, something. Can bat.

Wrong on both counts. Clarke should continue at 5, because the players who are next in line are top order batsman who would be better suited to the top 4.

Fools did say that about Marsh, luckily for me I wasn't in that category.

Fergie does not have a damn good technique, in ODI's he has started his career well, but even Adam Voges has good ODI stats, just given less opportunities to CF.

Ferguson still has the potential to play Test Cricket, but this isn't the time for him, he really needs to score century pronto and back that up with another big score THEN we can talk about him playing. At the present time, there are better options, unless you want to change 4 of the top 6..

 

[silentstriker]

His quote from Watto on opening:

'I feel like I'm batting with plenty of back-up and this is when my mind is free to let my talent go'

TBF Sehwag would say exactly the same thing.

Well, he'd probably say 'me see ball. me hit ball.', but he would mean what Watson said .

The problem with that is that it just looks really really bad when it doesn't come off (as it does with Sehwag) and looks genius and game changing when it does (again, same as Sehwag).

Obviously not saying Watto is as destructive, but I think their mental processes are probably similar in that regard.

IMO he belongs in the lower order anyway (and tbf, Sehwag does too, considering how much he murders spin....if India had another great opener).

 

[Woodster]

Just bought Haigh's book about the Ashes and he's pretty scathing about Watson's shortcomings in that series.

I'd also disagree with Stapel that Watson had a good Ashes series. I'm actually more inclined to forgive the run of scores Watskn's had recently - sometimes as an opener you're going to get balls early on that you can't do much with other than nick to the corden.

I agree that there will inevitably be periods when an opener just seems to nick everything, where as previously those deliveries would fly past the outside edge, early dismissals are part of the game as an opener when the ball is jagging about. There was always going to be a period in Watson's opening career where this would take place. However, his average has now dropped to 37.91, after his innings in the Ashes at Perth in Decemeber 2010, it was 42.12. His average was always likely to drop pretty quickly because he doesn't have the big scores in there to boost it, despite making several starts. Consequently his average will drop quickly because he never scores too many runs more than what his average stands at.

A player's average as we know is not the be all and end all, but it does give you an indication of the player's performances without telling the whole story.

In defence of Watson his average as an opener is still a respectable 43.66 due to his excellent consistency, but that is falling and will continue to fall quicky imo, unless he finds a way to occupy the crease for much longer periods. While he was being so consistent, it was all well and good, that period was always going to end, and I would suggest he has played few match defining innings to date.

 

[Spikey]

Shane Watson opening; Should it be a poll?

 

[Howe_zat]

Just found out that Copes has been blogging on his tumblr, surprised I didn't know about it for so long.

He hasn't done a post about this match yet.

 

[uvelocity]

Clarke should continue at 5,

<--snippa-->

unless you want to change 4 of the top 6..

Oh, yes, Clarke to stay at 5 no probs. Moreso I was having a go at posts detailing his difference in results based on batting position. He came in at 4 in the 47, which should not have mattered - we need steeeeeel. Normal possy, 5 no probs.

Change 4 of the 6, no. Hughes gone. Poontang gone. Watto moved. Tis only 3.

Who to come in? Ussie of course. Other place open to debate. Many candidates, any I think would have batted for their lives in c-town. Which is what was needed. 9/21 **** me.

 

[Woodster]

Have been looking around the Sheffield Shield at players that have opened the innings this season, and can understand perhaps why Hughes has got the job now, and why Warner is the man tipped to be pushing him. There are very few players that can a state a reasonable case to pressure those in the Aussie set-up right now, barring Chris Rogers, but obviously age is the issue there.

Ed Cowan has endured a shocking start to the season, thought he may be pushing a little harder this season. Otherwise it could be another effort at manufacturing a middle-order player into a Test opener. For me, Shaun Marsh has shown the requisite technique and temperament to be able to step up to open, but has to improve his conversion of start into big hundreds.

 

[BoyBrumby]

TBF Sehwag would say exactly the same thing.

Well, he'd probably say 'me see ball. me hit ball.', but he would mean what Watson said .

The problem with that is that it just looks really really bad when it doesn't come off (as it does with Sehwag) and looks genius and game changing when it does (again, same as Sehwag).

Obviously not saying Watto is as destructive, but I think their mental processes are probably similar in that regard.

IMO he belongs in the lower order anyway (and tbf, Sehwag does too, considering how much he murders spin....if India had another great opener).

Interesting regarding Watson.

I've always thought he was better served up the order because he's the kind of player who needs time to construct an innings (they used to call it "playing himself in" in the olden days) and struggled to tee off from the word go. A few years back he was coming in down the order and scratching around because the match situation meant he had to go hard at it from the off.

Now he's been in great form since the 2009 Ashes until very recently and his MO has evolved slightly to being more of a Sehwagesque dasher. That being so, could he now find a role in the middle order (by which I mean below #4 at least) or, given his recent downturn, should he go back to a more circumspect approach?

 

[silentstriker]

Interesting regarding Watson.

I've always thought he was better served up the order because he's the kind of player who needs time to construct an innings (they used to call it "playing himself in" in the olden days) and struggled to tee off from the word go. A few years back he was coming in down the order and scratching around because the match situation meant he had to go hard at it from the off.

Now he's been in great form since the 2009 Ashes until very recently and his MO has evolved slightly to being more of a Sehwagesque dasher. That being so, could he now find a role in the middle order (by which I mean below #4 at least) or, given his recent downturn, should he go back to a more circumspect approach?

Well Sehwag is allowed to be Sehwag because of the rest of the Indian batting lineup. Indian fans like me would be a lot more pissed at him if he were part of a lineup that was more brittle. That's probably not fair because that's just how he knows how to play, and I don't really think Sehwag even has another gear so the point is moot, but I think the fact that Australia now have 3 scores under a 100 in their last 12 matches after having just one score of under a hundred in the twenty five years preceding that....well that is just going to highlight his every bad shot. Any uber-aggressive shot is "bad" if you get out, and will be praised to the heavens as "not backing down and taking the fight to the opposition" if you pull it off.

I'd say that if he does have a "lower gear", and he can be circumspect, he should. Right now, Australia simply need runs on the board from their batting lineup - they are very far away from a Hayden/Gilchrist onslaught putting opponents into submission.....

Either way though, I think they need to find a proper opener somewhere and put him down the order (even if he goes down to six or seven, he should still probably be circumspect and not throw his wicket away unless the situation specifically warrants aggressiveness).

And if he DOESN'T have that second gear where he could go slower, than that's all the more reason to bat lower down the order.

 

[uvelocity]

Have been looking around the Sheffield Shield at players that have opened the innings this season, and can understand perhaps why Hughes has got the job now, and why Warner is the man tipped to be pushing him. There are very few players that can a state a reasonable case to pressure those in the Aussie set-up right now, barring Chris Rogers, but obviously age is the issue there.

Fella we have Marsh, Khawaja, Warner, the red stamped Katich (fml), the up and coming Maddinson and Quiney before we need to manufacture anyone. Plus Rogers and Jaques if we want to go back to the future. All we need is selectors willing to make the call. Thank **** we just picked some newies.

 

[Top_Cat]

Well Sehwag is allowed to be Sehwag because of the rest of the Indian batting lineup. Indian fans like me would be a lot more pissed at him if he were part of a lineup that was more brittle. That's probably not fair because that's just how he knows how to play, and I don't really think Sehwag even has another gear so the point is moot, but I think the fact that Australia now have 3 scores under a 100 in their last 12 matches after having just one score of under a hundred in the twenty five years preceding that....well that is just going to highlight his every bad shot. Any uber-aggressive shot is "bad" if you get out, and will be praised to the heavens as "not backing down and taking the fight to the opposition" if you pull it off.

I'd say that if he does have a "lower gear", and he can be circumspect, he should. Right now, Australia simply need runs on the board from their batting lineup - they are very far away from a Hayden/Gilchrist onslaught putting opponents into submission.....

Either way though, I think they need to find a proper opener somewhere and put him down the order (even if he goes down to six or seven, he should still probably be circumspect and not throw his wicket away unless the situation specifically warrants aggressiveness).

And if he DOESN'T have that second gear where he could go slower, than that's all the more reason to bat lower down the order.

Yeah but as bleak as that is, Watto starting his knock against spin is an even more lolarious prospect.

Personally, Australia have missed a trick not grooming him to bat 3.

 

[Woodster]

Fella we have Marsh, Khawaja, Warner, the red stamped Katich (fml), the up and coming Maddinson and Quiney before we need to manufacture anyone. Plus Rogers and Jaques if we want to go back to the future. All we need is selectors willing to make the call. Thank **** we just picked some newies.

Khawaja looks a good prospect, but am I right in saying hasn't played much as an opener, so too Marsh ? Warner has only ever played ten first-class games, admittedly pretty well so far, but would still represent a fair punt. Maddinson I'm presuming is some way-off Test consideration despite being a very good prospect.

All I'm saying is there looks to be very few beating the door down. Rogers is an outstanding bat imo, but at 34 there will be serious reservations about his selection. Thought Jaques' form had really drifted off since his latest back problems? Presume also there is no chance of a Katich return.

 

[hang on]

chappell suggests warner.

It's time for Warner to be in Test team: Chappell

another kooky idea by guru greg? is there really no one else ahead of warner who merits a place? always had him pegged as slogger, not someone who can add steel to the brittle batting. could someone who follows domestic oz cricket please enlighten me.

 

[Furball]

Yeah but as bleak as that is, Watto starting his knock against spin is an even more lolarious prospect.

Personally, Australia have missed a trick not grooming him to bat 3.

Yeah, I'd have dropped Watson to 3 or 4 after the Ashes.

 

[Top_Cat]

Pretty sure Khawaja only ever opened before NSW picked him.

 

[Furball]

Well Sehwag is allowed to be Sehwag because of the rest of the Indian batting lineup. Indian fans like me would be a lot more pissed at him if he were part of a lineup that was more brittle. That's probably not fair because that's just how he knows how to play, and I don't really think Sehwag even has another gear so the point is moot, but I think the fact that Australia now have 3 scores under a 100 in their last 12 matches after having just one score of under a hundred in the twenty five years preceding that....well that is just going to highlight his every bad shot. Any uber-aggressive shot is "bad" if you get out, and will be praised to the heavens as "not backing down and taking the fight to the opposition" if you pull it off.

I'd say that if he does have a "lower gear", and he can be circumspect, he should. Right now, Australia simply need runs on the board from their batting lineup - they are very far away from a Hayden/Gilchrist onslaught putting opponents into submission.....

Either way though, I think they need to find a proper opener somewhere and put him down the order (even if he goes down to six or seven, he should still probably be circumspect and not throw his wicket away unless the situation specifically warrants aggressiveness).

And if he DOESN'T have that second gear where he could go slower, than that's all the more reason to bat lower down the order.

Dunno where this Sehwag comparison has come from, Watson doesn't play like him at all.

 

[Woodster]

Pretty sure Khawaja only ever opened before NSW picked him.

So he has some experience of that position, but not much as first-class level. The step-up from number three position to opening I would not imagine requires great changes, as there are plenty of times they will be batting in the first few overs of an innings, but personally would still prefer an out and out opener in that slot.

 

[Midwinter]

Any thoughts on the Watson -Katch partnership versus the Watson - Hughes partnership ?

Is he trying to go hard earlier now than then ?

 

[Furball]

Any thoughts on the Watson -Katch partnership versus the Watson - Hughes partnership ?

Is he trying to go hard earlier now than then ?

 

[Prince EWS]

chappell suggests warner.

It's time for Warner to be in Test team: Chappell

another kooky idea by guru greg? is there really no one else ahead of warner who merits a place? always had him pegged as slogger, not someone who can add steel to the brittle batting. could someone who follows domestic oz cricket please enlighten me.

Warner bats a lot differently at First Class level. He's still on the aggressive side but he's anything but a slogger and has a far better technique than Hughes or Khawaja IMHO. In an ideal world he'd get a little more Shield experience but it's definitely not a ridiculous idea.