Pitch Bitch.

[Cevno]

yeah but a proper skilled batting technique means you will be in a better position to adjust to seam movement however inconsistent bounce does not allow that luxury and makes a Kallis as vulnerable as Morne Morkel

Completely disagree. Sehwag, Sachin have showed time and again on how to play on such pitches and so did Michael Hussey and Hashim Amla in the recent past.Meanwhile Kumble has shown how to bowl on such wickets.

Proper technique is not equal to one which means that you can deal with seam but not inconsistent bounce. Play late, Use your feet, have quick hands and cut out horizontal bat shorts to minimum to succeed on a pitch with inconsistent bounce.

 

[Cevno]

For a brief moment there I thought you were talking about pace bowlers.

I thought "Bloody hell, I'd like to see that!"

Such a seam bowlers game. It's almost like Spinners aren't considered bowlers, let alone attacking options these days.

 

[hang on]

It's a test of a batsman's technique when one ball pitches on a good length and he comes forward to it and middles it and the next lands in the same spot and rockets off his gloves, followed by one which almost rolls?

I have to disagree, all it does is show us who gets luckiest on the day. The idea that you can refine your technique to adjust to a ball that doesn't get up at 140kph when you have about 0.44s to see it and play a shot just doesn't make sense.

it is a question of degree, of course. if it is a complete crapshoot between a ball punching a hole through your instep or your temple every time it is bowled, then one could have cause for complaint. but, if the inconsistency in bounce is less - in terms of degree and/or frequencey - but enough to sow some uncertainty in the minds of batsmen, then surely playing back, playing late, playing with softer hands etc. are all tools in the batsman's tool chest that can be brought into use to er...construct an innings with something more than just hope and prayer.

hence inconsistent bounce is good for the game. it is the closest, i imagine, to the challenges that were afforded by sticky dogs, though would be glad if some up on his history of cricketing conditions could correct me.

overall, a wide variety of conditions is good, including complete flatties where the bowlers have to try really hard to get batsmen out. these kinds of wickets also lead to the evolution of the game.....the doosra, reverse swing etc. a continuous red queen game.

 

[silentstriker]

yeah but a proper skilled batting technique means you will be in a better position to adjust to seam movement however inconsistent bounce does not allow that luxury and makes a Kallis as vulnerable as Morne Morkel

Rahul Dravid. Sabina Park. A God amongst men.



Twice.


I don't care how many triples Sehwag scores or how many doubles Dravid has scored. Those twin half centuries were glorious to watch and ones I will remember Dravid by. If twenty years from now if people ask why he was called 'The Wall', I'll just point them to a video of that Test match. Cricinfo posted an article titled 'Thou Shalt not Pass" about that innings. Morne Morkel you say?


Separate the men from the boys.


EDIT: I talk about this innings all the time - I should write an article on it. It was so epic and I am personally offended every time it's not even mentioned in the great innings threads .

 

[silentstriker]

If every pitch was really bowler friendly, after a while that would get dull too.

I think the best thing is variety in pitches, provided there's always a contest. Be it one which bounces and seams or turns - as long as its a good contest, I'm happy with it.

Well, we'll worry about what to do about that far away promised land if we ever remotely get close to it. There are way too many commercial considerations at stake (boards lose a lot of $$ for every day of play that is unable to be televised) - so instead of complaining, we should enjoy a good contest between teams where the bowlers have the edge for once. Because there is no chance of it becoming commonplace. Ever. Unless someone can figure out how to negotiate TV rights where you get more money for earlier Test match conclusions.

 

[uvelocity]

couldn't be bothered reading the thread, it's a boring topic for mine - but after reading whingeing in the match thread about the pitch should be reported in Cape Town:

It's not about if a pitch suits seam or swing. It's about if there is the opportunity to play proper cricket shots. Uneven bounce is the enemy, if, early in the match, a pitch is such that a ball can go through the surface or hit a crack and either rear up or run along the surface - its a bad pitch. That is the test.

 

[Xuhaib]

Completely disagree. Sehwag, Sachin have showed time and again on how to play on such pitches and so did Michael Hussey and Hashim Amla in the recent past.Meanwhile Kumble has shown how to bowl on such wickets.

Proper technique is not equal to one which means that you can deal with seam but not inconsistent bounce. Play late, Use your feet, have quick hands and cut out horizontal bat shorts to minimum to succeed on a pitch with inconsistent bounce.

Playing late is going to help you on any kind of challenging pitch its just not restricted to an inconsistent pitch.

A very important part of a batting technique is the batsman judgement when to play back and when to come forward. A pitch with a lot of crazy movement still allows a batsman to bring that part of his technique in to the game while an inconsistent pitch takes that aspect of batting out of the game and all you left is on your instincts and mere luck.

 

[centurymaker]

Playing late is going to help you on any kind of challenging pitch its just not restricted to an inconsistent pitch.

A very important part of a batting technique is the batsman judgement when to play back and when to come forward. A pitch with a lot of crazy movement still allows a batsman to bring that part of his technique in to the game while an inconsistent pitch takes that aspect of batting out of the game and all you left is on your instincts and mere luck.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
As long as there's only either low bounce or extra bounce ( not both) to a reasonable extent, I don't see a problem with such surfaces.

 

[Xuhaib]

exactly I don't mind movement or low bounce or extra bounce as long is it is relatively predictable however an inconsistent bonce pitch takes away a lot from the batsman who has built his game on sound batting basics.

 

[Xuhaib]

Rahul Dravid. Sabina Park. A God amongst men.



Twice.


I don't care how many triples Sehwag scores or how many doubles Dravid has scored. Those twin half centuries were glorious to watch and ones I will remember Dravid by. If twenty years from now if people ask why he was called 'The Wall', I'll just point them to a video of that Test match. Cricinfo posted an article titled 'Thou Shalt not Pass" about that innings. Morne Morkel you say?


Separate the men from the boys.


EDIT: I talk about this innings all the time - I should write an article on it. It was so epic and I am personally offended every time it's not even mentioned in the great innings threads .

big deal! great batsman in zone can do remarkable things you put Dravid on that pitch for 10 test matches and he will probable replicate his efforts not more then twice a batsman of dravid class and technique deserves to be successful more then twice in 10 games.

 

[Cevno]

big deal! great batsman in zone can do remarkable things you put Dravid on that pitch for 10 test matches and he will probable replicate his efforts not more then twice a batsman of dravid class and technique deserves to be successful more then twice in 10 games.

Same applies to the Newzealand series then, where they prepared Green seaming wickets or South Africa?

 

[Flem274*]

Same applies to the Newzealand series then, where they prepared Green seaming wickets or South Africa?

Pfft the first test second innings wasn't much of a green top. India got out through being stink. Don't make me upload screenshots. Could take a beauty of Dravid trying to cover drive an inswinging yorker, or one of Ganguly trying to be the first staple diver ever to leap onto a cricket pitch.

 

[Cevno]

Playing late is going to help you on any kind of challenging pitch its just not restricted to an inconsistent pitch.

A very important part of a batting technique is the batsman judgement when to play back and when to come forward. A pitch with a lot of crazy movement still allows a batsman to bring that part of his technique in to the game while an inconsistent pitch takes that aspect of batting out of the game and all you left is on your instincts and mere luck.

That doesn't make sense to me tbh.

You have to come forward and go back correctly and play as late as possible or even use your feet, cutting horizontal shots on a pitch with 2 way bounce too. And luck plays as important part as to which the ball will seam and by how much too.

Take someone like Sehwag for example. He you could say doesn't have the best technique on a Seaming wicket, but on the other hand deals with inconsistent bounce very well. Even in IPL, on a pitch in Kochi where the ball was rolling on the ground on some occasions he made a brilliant 80 off 45 balls, which was largely chance less.

Good technique does not equal the ability to play on Seaming and Swinging wickets only. And Instincts and judgement are obviously a important part too.

 

[Cevno]

Pfft the first test second innings wasn't much of a green top. India got out through being stink. Don't make me upload screenshots. Could take a beauty of Dravid trying to cover drive an inswinging yorker, or one of Ganguly trying to be the first staple diver ever to leap onto a cricket pitch.

70% of wickets on wickets which have differntiated bounce or are turning/cracked up are like that too. Trying to cover drive a off spinner and getting bowled through the gate, or pushing with the bat on the front foot and getting caught at bat - pad or playing a horizontal bat shot on the back foot and getting trapped LBW, and then moaning about the pitch.

 

[Daemon]

It's amazing how lucky good bowlers can get. To the extent they know which way they move it even.

I'm not talking about the art of bowling cutters here.

The direction and degree of deviation from a straight path are dependent on the small-scale alignment of the seam and any irregularities in the pitch surface. This means that deviation caused by seam is chaotic and unpredictable.

 

[Xuhaib]

Cevno we can agree to disagree.

In short I have no sympathies with a batsman who looses his stumps to an off cutter on a green seamer or is caught behind of a ripping leg break on a raging turner with a more precise footwork and a better judgement of his offstump he would have avoided the accident. However i have full sympathy with a bloke who gets hit on the shin fr a shortish ball when the previous over the batsman had pulled the ball of a similar length to mid wicket.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I'm not talking about the art of bowling cutters here.

Are you sure?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Are you sure?

Obviously this question isn't addressed to me, but seam movement is almost by definition random. Cutters are due to spin imparted on the ball and are not the same as seam movement.

 

[Prince EWS]

Obviously this question isn't addressed to me, but seam movement is almost by definition random. Cutters are due to spin imparted on the ball and are not the same as seam movement.

Indeed.

 

[gvenkat]

As long as pitch is not a road, Every pitch is ok. People should not blame square turners as bad pitches, We have seen some magnificent innings from batsmen on square turners.

None better than Gavaskar's 96 against Pakistan. The pitch was a spinner's wickets and Gavaskar played an absolutely superb innings. Dravid's two knocks against the WI at Sabina was brillinat in 2006. It was not a turner but it was a Test for the batsmen. Only Dravid batted well.

As long as the pitch is not dangerous in the first hour and the outfield is a beach and the pitch is a Flat Track, every pitch is a challenge for the batsmen. It does not matter if it's a turner or a seaming pitch.