***Official*** Australia in South Africa

[Stapel]

If not for Imran Tahir South Africa may have lost by an innings.

You think Aus would have asked SA to follow on?

 

[Cevno]

Surely, they would have?

Would have been stupid not too.

 

[Burgey]

You think Aus would have asked SA to follow on?

No doubt in my mind they would have. Only bowled 25 overs or so.

 

[Furball]

The batting just can't continue with the same personnel, it wasn't North or Katich that were the problem before, and they aren't the problem now obviously. The openers are just not doing anything, Watson can barely bat an hour FFS.

In the last Ashes, not once did Watson stay at the crease for 3 hours. Cook on the other hand, was at the crease for a total of 36 hours during the series - the equivelant of an entire Test spent batting, then the first day of the 2nd Test.

 

[Stapel]

So am I right in thinking that only Clarke, Hussey, Watson, Marsh, and Harris are the only certainties for the short-term ?

Can't really argue with that!

Opening batsman - Perhaps Shane Watson too, his place in the side may not be in question, just his position at the top of the order. Does a middle order slot beckon due to his growing stature as a bowler and more time for him to recover from those spells ? This comes more into the spotlight as he has currently lost that consistency that saw him frequently get Australia off to a decent start, without really ever converting those starts.

To be fair, Watson's first dismissal was by a Steyn snorter and his 2nd wasn't exactly poor batting either (could have reviewed it). I've always liked Watson as an opener. Stay there for a while, get the shine off, set a decent start of the innings. Who cares about conversion? His recent innings might not show for much, but imho he has established his role as an opener quit firmly! I must say my opinion is strongly based on last year's Ashes too. With MHussey, he was the only proper Aussie bat!

 

[robelinda]

Indeed. Watson always looks good, but we can't be thinking its good for our long term opener to be only good at batting for such small scores and short time at the crease, i don't care what his average is now, I'm not sure he is capable of batting 6 hours and making a huge score. Talented for sure, and looks a million dollars, love his batting, but is he the best long term opening option? I'd back Warner to stay longer at the crease.

 

[abmk]

You're kidding. Ferg is barely justifying his spot in the SA side right now.

I''ll admit I haven't watched much of him in the Aussie domestic league. He looked good in the ODIs in which I've seen him bat, which is why I said that .....

 

[Stapel]

Surely, they would have?

Would have been stupid not too.

No doubt in my mind they would have. Only bowled 25 overs or so.

Well, I guess I would, but in slow scoring matches, it's been the regular thing to take the game away with the bat first. Or am I wrong with that?

 

[Spikey]

I'd back Warner to stay longer at the crease.

Warner has actually shown a talent for building big innings for guys that might not know.

 

[Redbacks]

Indeed. Watson always looks good, but we can't be thinking its good for our long term opener to be only good at batting for such small scores and short time at the crease

Haigh reflecting on the contents of Watto's book made a good point about Watson's mental approach to the game today. 5 years ago that players called him out at one of the honesty session for being a bit of a whinger and also too intense. Watto enjoys batting at the top in ODIs because it is a controlled structure with overs fieldsettings and the precise tactics in place he then feels free to just relax and play his natural game. He's thus not a fan of the adaptability one might require when batting at 6 when the situation is always out of his control.

In tests he does have a habit of getting to 50 and then seemingly falling apart via a loose shot. If he has a mental issue with batting down the order, due to pressure of holding an innnings together, then he will need find a way to deal with it.

 

[Spark]

That seriously concerns me...

EDIT: Honesty sessions. Heh.

 

[Sylvester]

Watson played most of his cricket at 4 so like Clarke he might just better suited in a certain spot. Also helps us fill that dreaded 4 spot. Before his test career Watson did have a knack for making 100s and his 203* shows he can bat long periods.

 

[Redbacks]

His quote from Watto on opening:

'I feel like I'm batting with plenty of back-up and this is when my mind is free to let my talent go'

Five day cricket doesn't lend itself to the same level of control, and in doing so exposes Watson's limitations as a batsman: his reliance on boundaries, his lapses around breaks, his skittish running, and that aforementioned intensity which seems to exact at least some mental if not a physical toll.

 

[Spark]

Out of context perhaps but geez those quotes don't fill one with confidence at the present juncture.

 

[Redbacks]

Given the work he put into getting himself right and remodelling his action, I would think he can put his mind to it and grow as a player once again if he moved down the order in tests. He is a gun at the top in ODIs.

 

[Furball]

Out of context perhaps but geez those quotes don't fill one with confidence at the present juncture.

Just bought Haigh's book about the Ashes and he's pretty scathing about Watson's shortcomings in that series.

I'd also disagree with Stapel that Watson had a good Ashes series. I'm actually more inclined to forgive the run of scores Watskn's had recently - sometimes as an opener you're going to get balls early on that you can't do much with other than nick to the corden.

 

[Cevno]

Haha! Would love to be a fly on the wall in those Honesty Sessions. Wonder what they feel and say about each others performances?

 

[BoyBrumby]

Oh, and also, Brad Haddin's shot - worst shot ever played by an Australian batsman? Discuss.

Honestly speaking, Hussey's shot was just as bad. Didn't look as bad but was equally needless and was the first ball after tea to boot.

The innings needed more composure at 13/3.

At 20/5 with Marsh doubtful to bat at all, Haddin was batting with the tail on a tricky deck against quality bowling. He executed the shot extremely poorly but the idea to counter-attack at that point was sound in reasoning, particularly given he's a naturally aggressive batsman.

No love for Johnson's dismissal? Wide long hop smacked down gully's throat is never a good look, even for a #8. Not a "proper" batter, obvz, but I'm assuming his batting prowess (test ton against the current oppo IIRC) must be at least some of the reason (& by some I mean upwards of 80%) for his retention.

Hard to split Hussey's and Haddin's IMHO. I'm not sure I agree with those giving Haddin a partial pass because of his "positive intent" either. There's postivity and there's foolihardiness and Bradley's shot was towards the twattish end of the latter. Yeah, 20/5, bowler at other end, etc, but said bowler can bat, the lead was 200+ and he's advancing down the pitch to a bloke who was seaming everything at that stage. Was the worst kind of limited overs shot.

Clarke had put on 70-odd with the last two in the first innings and how important could similar in the second have been to Australia's cause? Think he scored about 3 off his first 20 balls too, rode his luck, but got an eye for the pitch. Haddin's no Clarke, but he's good enough to be thought of as a proper batsman and have the same standards applied.

The last 5 hours in this thread are the finest posts I've ever read on CW.

It's absolutely hilarious, Aussie's suffering, Aussie's gloating, Aussie's dying. This has to be one of the weirdest matches of all time.

Indeed. It's been an epic read. Have spent the better part of my morning reading the 140+ pages I had to catch up on. A bit less windmill tilting from a few Indian posters regarding the ICC's alleged different standards applied to seaming pitches than their spinning brethren would've made it perfect, but it's CW at its best.

Disgraceful Batting says the Australian captain



I have never been a great fan of Clarke but his batting yesterday was a revelation and this is even better. I can think of many captains (current and past), particularly in the part of the world where I come from screaming "Disgraceful Wicket" and the next day's papers hitting two inch thick headlines repeating the same.

Quite so.

It's fair to say I've been more or less steadfastly anti-Clarke, but his captaincy & his refreshing lack of cant has been (cliche alert) an absolute breath of fresh air. When one hears the real McCoy it puts the bland platitudes we get from most sportsmen firmly in their place.

I think the contrast with Ponting's "I don't know how we lost" speech after The Oval in 2009 is especially damning on his predecessor.

Johnson does trouble Smith, it seems. The latter's fourth innings record is quite something though, isn't it?

Speaking of blokes I haven't always seen eye to eye with...

I mean Fat Gray, not Burgey, I hasten to add. Never liked the fat blow hard (I'm still meaning Smith ) but he's played some great knocks with the screws applied. His unbeaten 154 at Edgbaston in 2008 with SA chasing 281 and having been reduced to 93/4 & then 171/5 was an epic.

Credit where it's due and all that.

Earlier today I was 50/50, but **** it. Everyone else can't be made to pay the price before him. A new guy can't go any worse and will get some valuable experience for the future. Ponting is now just a champ past his prime who needs his cornerman to do the right thing and throw in the towel because he's too proud to go to the canvas.

Love the metaphor, even if I'm not quite convinced Punter's punchy myself.

Is this how England fans reacted during the 89, 90/91, 93, 94/95, 97, 98/99, 01, and 02/03 Ashes after every loss?

Had the interwebz been bigger back then I expect we'd have vented some quality spleen. Highlights might've included the sidelining of Gower for no better reason than he preferred Bollinger to bitter and taking Joey Benjamin & Martin McCague over Gus Fraser for the 94/95 tour.

Mostly we we just not up to it tho.

I only had to have one look at the wicket on a computer monitor on the morning of Day 1 to tell you that Copeland should've been playing this match.

Ha, quite. Really, really love to know the thought process there. Bloke performs creditably if not earth shatteringly on dead ducks in SL and is dropped for a test on the kind of deck he could've been genetically engineering to bowl on.

Say what you want about Ponting, but you can never ever question his mind set when it comes to putting the team first. He will know when his time is up. He obviously feels the team is better with him in it, and undoubtedly I think that's true. As soon as he no longer feels he is an asset to the team, he will retire.

I'm expecting him to come out and flog a ton next match. I certainly hope so anyway.

He's absolutely never been a selfish player, but I'm not sure I agree about him being the best judge. It seems as if (like a lot of the greats) part of his success is built on an iron self-belief. Such a mind set is a massive boon to sportsmen, but it does mean dispassionate self-analysis isn't always possible.

In my humble estimation he hung onto the captaincy for way too long, despite never being an ideal fit tactically or temperamentally for the job. I've no doubt he thought he was the best man for the armband, but the way Clarke has hit the ground shows he could've been wrong.

I don't necessarily think he's gone as a batsman, but equally I'm not sure he'll know (or allow himself to admit at least) when he is either.

 

[Flem274*]

If by CW at it's finest you mean Australians screaming/typing in agony, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[uvelocity]

Shocking. I thought the Aussie bats couldn't possibly sink any lower than day 1 Melbourne, day 1 Sydney, day 1 Leeds, etc.

That fact you mention there is the biggest **** up in the world for mine. I don't even care how badly anyone thinks the next crop of Aussie batsmen could do, the collapses are beyond the pale, and that only 1 batsman has been dropped in the period they have happened is unfathomable. Selectors and coach are gone, time for the players to get on the bus.

they absolutely have to change their batting lineup.

this. And no excuses for "Clarke is no good at four." I don't give a **** (and don't blame him there very much this test.) But the batsmen need to show some mother****ing ticker for ****s sake. Weak as piss.

I would question that you haven't seen or read enough about Ferguson either. Ferguson screams soft, we don't need another batsman with his attributes in the Test lineup.

Fools said Marsh had a poor FC record. Didn't convert starts, not enough hundreds blah blah. Fergie has a damn good technique, have seen him play some lovely knocks, dripping with talent. Whatever he is missing there in FC cricket at SA, we need to give him. Bit of tongue in the ear or a grab on the butt, something. Can bat.

I'm expecting him to come out and flog a ton next match. I certainly hope so anyway.

Gimme a date to stop saying this by.

taken as he was deciding which one of MJ or Siddle to bowl

Feel sorry for the bloke actually. Poor Clarkie. Really good words after the game. Uselss and waste of time. Believed every word of it.

Show me the cases in recent times when a prolific batsman averaging over 50 for their career, with good FC and ODI form, when given a lengthy chance to perform at test level hasn't recaptured form?

Ponting.

Honestly speaking, Hussey's shot was just as bad. Didn't look as bad but was equally needless and was the first ball after tea to boot.

Disagree there. Hussey coulda shoulda woulda left it. Played unnecisarily at a wideish one, first ball after tea. Knuckling down was definitely the order of the day. Tried to take advantage of a wide looking one and failed.

Hussey, as opposed to Haddin, played a regular cricket shot, on the merit of the ball as it was apparent. Hussey, as opposed to Haddin, did not try to slog. Hussey did not pre-meditate his shot. Hussey did not look like he had given up. Haddin's record actually I find to be perfectly acceptable, and has been told to concentrate moreso on his keeping. But to play the shot he did in the context was despicable. It showed he didn't give a ****. I'd never pick him again.

Hughes is not good enough. Watson was only ever a makeshift opener to get into the team, and remember he was no damn good at it in shield cricket anyway. Down the order with you. Ponting is ****ing finished, shut it ****. Haddin disrespected everybody sitting up in the middle of the night watching a park cricket shot in that scenario. Card punched. Johnson should have been shot seasons ago. Copes was dudded. Cummo or Patto or both to get in amongst it stat. Still cranky ftr.