***Official*** Australia in South Africa

[benchmark00]

Precedence doesn't show the alterative works. It has 'worked' in one case that you've shown, probably more, but that still doesn't mean you should stick with old out of form players if it doesn't work more often than it does. Or to put it another way, you just pick the batsmen for the Test that you think are likeliest to score runs.

It would be inconsistent selection, yeah, but that's irrelevant. Sunk costs etc. Past selection is no reason to make a selection error now.

Show me the cases in recent times when a prolific batsman averaging over 50 for their career, with good FC and ODI form, when given a lengthy chance to perform at test level hasn't recaptured form?

 

[Spark]

Whilst they were definately bad shots, I don't think Hussey or Haddin had the wrong mentality. Every good score in the match was with a really high SR. Clearly the way you needed to score on that wicket.

Incorrect.

Aside from Amla going bonkers at the end, Clarke, Smith and Amla all did one thing - keep out the good ones (granted, Smith and Amla didn't face all that many) and smash the bad ones. You look at a highlights package of Clarke's knock and you'll see that almost all of them were half volleys, wide rubbish or leg stump pies. All that means is that he didn't get runs by doing something overly risky and chase something that wasn't there for it, but if it was there, it got the treatment.

That is how you play on a tough deck.

 

[adub]

Just get rid of Johnson forever.

task no.1

 

[weldone]

Haha yeah I've noted this many times. It seems to be particularly true with Australian fans and the media here; there's a deluded arrogance at times over an almost inherent right to always be better than the opposition.

That said, to deny that there are significant problems with how the Australian team has been selected over the last year or two would be equally deluded. That Katich and Bollinger are not part of the squad is nigh on disgraceful and I only had to have one look at the wicket on a computer monitor on the morning of Day 1 to tell you that Copeland should've been playing this match. Those are three examples of obviously poor selection that 90% of fans on this board could've pointed out to you before the match even began. Whether or not they would've made a difference is of course debatable but when you lose and you know you were hindered by selection - and knew it before the match, too - then it's hard not to get frustrated with it and blame it for some of your woes.

It's prevalent in India, too. In Greg Chappell's era, I followed that problem carefully here. When with our best XI we lost by 10 runs for example, then invariably somebody would complain about selection issues rather than extracting more out of our best XI. So, all Gangulys would be replaced by Suresh Rainas, all Tendulkars will be moved to no. 4 in order to accomodate Robin Uthappas at the top (in ODIs) - and we would lose the next match by 40 runs. Then again complain about selection issues, replace all Suresh Rainas by Venugopal Raos... and the circle would go on...

Can't comment on the present Australian scenario as I haven't followed Australian cricket closely enough recently. But yeah, it seems like a combination of selection issues and their best cricketers not being good enough.

 

[morgieb]

Australia *facepalm*

 

[NUFAN]

at 5/20 with johnson there the innings was stuffed! **** composure!

On a related note, i miss hauritz in the lower order. if he was at the other end i don't think haddin plays that shot.




or maybe he does i dunno know

The innings needed more composure at 13/3.

At 20/5 with Marsh doubtful to bat at all, Haddin was batting with the tail on a tricky deck against quality bowling. He executed the shot extremely poorly but the idea to counter-attack at that point was sound in reasoning, particularly given he's a naturally aggressive batsman.

I miss Hauritz too in a batting sense. I mean it's pretty crazy to think that Haddin needed to go all out that early in his innings though. He could have, you know made a run first before hitting a risky T20 shot. Siddle probably should have come out before Johnson to calm down Haddin but you would think a 34 year old would have a little more game sense.

Siddle had shown just a few hours earlier that he could stick around, so with Harris, Siddle, Lyon and potentially Marsh still to come, Haddin should have played within himself at the start of his innings, given the circumstances - If he's such an aggressive batsman, drop him - stonewallers for the win.



I know we were in a bad situation before Haddin got out, but surely you have to respect your wicket a little more.

 

[Spark]

Counter-attacking doesn't mean you completely forget about shot selection though.

 

[keeper]

The innings needed more composure at 13/3.

At 20/5 with Marsh doubtful to bat at all, Haddin was batting with the tail on a tricky deck against quality bowling. He executed the shot extremely poorly but the idea to counter-attack at that point was sound in reasoning, particularly given he's a naturally aggressive batsman.

That was Rob Key's argument against Cork - that it was the execution rather than the intent that was the problem.

 

[pup11]

I expect a Test quality batsman to average more than 36 after 50+ FC games when your home ground is one of the flattest decks in the world.

Ferguson has stepped up in the last 18-24 months as a batsman so his overall FC record is a bit misleading in that regard, he of course needs to be a bit more consistent but his class as a batsman is pretty evident and if he doesn't have a very good career for Australia then it would be a pretty big waste of talent.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Show me the cases in recent times when a prolific batsman averaging over 50 for their career, with good FC and ODI form, when given a lengthy chance to perform at test level hasn't recaptured form?

It's possible that there's no cases, I hadn't thought about it (and now that I have I can't think of any). Having said that, the sample size of batsman who have at any time recently fitted the 'averaging over 50 for their career, with good FC and ODI form but no Test form' has to be pretty close to zero anyway.

As I said, I think Ponting is probably in the best six Australian batsmen as well. My point was a purely theoretical one, that just because something has worked once in the past doesn't automatically make it the correct thing to do (if it doesn't work more often than it does - note the if). Australia have way bigger selection issues than Ponting imo.

 

[Ruckus]

Incorrect.

Aside from Amla going bonkers at the end, Clarke, Smith and Amla all did one thing - keep out the good ones (granted, Smith and Amla didn't face all that many) and smash the bad ones. You look at a highlights package of Clarke's knock and you'll see that almost all of them were half volleys, wide rubbish or leg stump pies. All that means is that he didn't get runs by doing something overly risky and chase something that wasn't there for it, but if it was there, it got the treatment.

That is how you play on a tough deck.

Yeah true, but I think there is more to it than that. It's also about limiting the amount of balls you have to face (especially in a situation like Clarke's where the ball was seaming around and doing some wierd stuff occasionally) and counter-attacking to rattle the bowlers. Hussey and Haddin admittedly went at it far too recklessly and didn't get their eye in at all.

 

[Spark]

Ferguson has stepped up in the last 18-24 months as a batsman so his overall FC record is a bit misleading in that regard, he of course needs to be a bit more consistent but his class as a batsman is pretty evident and if he doesn't have a very good career for Australia then it would be a pretty big waste of talent.

Indeed it would, and it would be entirely his fault.

 

[Prince EWS]

Ferguson has stepped up in the last 18-24 months as a batsman so his overall FC record is a bit misleading in that regard

Since the start of the 2009-10 First Class season his average is actually worse.

 

[NUFAN]

Counter-attacking doesn't mean you completely forget about shot selection though.

Tell that to Haddin. I've watched Hussey's shot a few more times and it's just a normal poor dismissal as far as I'm concerned. I know it was first ball after the break which makes it slightly worse (for some reason), but his wicket was pretty standard, often it would go between the fielders and you wouldn't think much of it. I prefer Hussey's shot compared to Hughes as Hughes definitely showed his technical weaknesses while Hussey just didn't hit his drive well.

Ferguson has stepped up in the last 18-24 months as a batsman so his overall FC record is a bit misleading in that regard, he of course needs to be a bit more consistent but his class as a batsman is pretty evident and if he doesn't have a very good career for Australia then it would be a pretty big waste of talent.

Ferguson has started this first class season poorly. It's still early days though, but at the current time he doesn't deserve to be in this team. Your mate Finch hasn't done well either yet.

 

[Athlai]

Since the start of the 2009-10 First Class season his average is actually worse.

 

[Spikey]

Ferguson has stepped up in the last 18-24 months as a batsman so his overall FC record is a bit misleading in that regard, he of course needs to be a bit more consistent but his class as a batsman is pretty evident and if he doesn't have a very good career for Australia then it would be a pretty big waste of talent.

ahahahahaha. 5 innings for high score of 26. on roads too.

 

[Spark]

However the new skipper made a point of criticising his wayward bowling attack as well.

When asked who his best performed bowler was in the second innings, the several-second silence before his answer was deafening.

That must have been a brutal presser...

 

[Scaly piscine]

Lol'n at Scaly. Don't think I'll bother with the number of things that are demonstrably wrong in there.

Congrats on the above making you look like an idiot. I'll happily cut to the point, it's a forum. If you can't be bothered then don't post in the first place.

 

[Johnners]

Ferguson has stepped up in the last 18-24 months as a batsman so his overall FC record is a bit misleading in that regard, he of course needs to be a bit more consistent but his class as a batsman is pretty evident and if he doesn't have a very good career for Australia then it would be a pretty big waste of talent.

As much as I'd love to be able to agree with you, this is a crock of ****. Ferguson was better last season, but his average is anything but misleading. I'd doubt he's scored more than 3 centuries in the past 18 months, and IIRC he's only over twice averaged more than 40 (and even then only just) for a season. Also tie in the fact that he's barely made a run so far this season and he really shouldn't be anywhere near the team. You are right in that it'd be a massive waste of talent though, but there's only 1 person to blame for it sadly.

Edit: Beaten

 

[Scaly piscine]

Regarding Hussey, he got a full half-volley, he just didn't move his feet and edged it. That happens. Haddin's dismissal was far worse. He didn't play any sort of percentage shot, that was a death over shot. It's one thing coming down to pitch, but moving to leg and hacking at the ball? You have to attack with more composure than that.