Best players of spin bowling in test matches you have seen live

[flibbertyjibber]

Live would be....

Lara
Tendulkar
Azharruddin

Best English player would be Thorpe, current best probably Bell.

 

[Burgey]

Am very, very, very pissed off at myself in not mentioning Doug Walters in this thread tbh.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Outswinger@Pace has a crush on Dravid

Lol! I wouldn't deny that.

But, my explanation for rating Dravid very highly is below:

don't see the point in placing dravid with sehwag/lara as far as playing spin is concerned. They both are by some distance better. So are Sachin, Younis, Ganguly, Mahela ( & Siddhu and Azhar )

I'll confess that my impression could have been formed chiefly by watching Dravid at his peak. In the 2002-2006 period, he looked to be the most assured against anything bowled at him. All the others names you mention are top shouts as well and I have already rated them as exceptional players of spin.

Dravid could play it down with the turn and ride the occasional awkward bounce. Not saying the others couldn't but in the period I saw, he just did it better. And because of his style of playing late and a having a technically high-percentage game, his knocks would be as close to chanceless as they could possibly be. I am a bit of a purist as well so the poise with which he smothered spin and blunted pace could have an influence in my ranking of the man.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Talking about former greats, Dilip Sardesai was perhaps a great player of spin bowling as well.

Sunil Gavaskar rates him very highly. Of course, in Sardesai's case, all the great spinners then were playing in his national team. He must have had great duels with the likes of Prasanna, Chandra and Bedi in the Ranji trophy and Duleep trophy matches.

I remember Gavaskar recounting one particular instance when the Sardesai-Wadekar pair was pitted against the Prasanna-Chandra attack. Ajit (being left-handed) took most of Chandra and Sardi ma'an took the offie with his nimble-footedness to counter flight and turn. Must have been a great day for cricket connoisseurs who watched them in action that match!

Is there anyone here (SJS, perhaps) who has seen Sardesai at his peak in f/c games? Can they share some of their insight on his game against spin?

 

[vcs]

There is an interesting anecdote on Gavaskar himself. Apparently he batted left-handed once in a FC game because a spinner was getting the ball to spit out of the rough to the right-hander, and made quite a few runs in that knock as well.

 

[honestbharani]

Azhar was ****ing amazing against spin. Probably the best I've seen from a talent perspective. Lara was amazing too. Though he has lost the 'toying with it' effect of the past, Tendulkar's an awesome accumulator against spin bowling, has a tendency to get out against part-timers and newbies though. Kallis pretty underrated against spin throughout his career. His display in the third test in SA, 2010 was immense, particularly in the second Innings with a broken back, score at 80-5 and the pitch made for Harbhajan.

Sehwag on another level though. Would back him over even Lara on a spinning track against quality spin bowling. His 201* in Galle is a prime example of why the "batsman don't win matches' crew should GAGF. Absolute masterpiece. ATG knock for sure.

While I do not disagree on Sehwag, did you see Lara's efforts in SL in 2001?

 

[Teja.]

While I do not disagree on Sehwag, did you see Lara's efforts in SL in 2001?

Yes, once live and replays a few times. Definitely has an awesome case to be the best player of spin of the last 2 decades.

 

[Migara]

My list will be:

1. Brian Lara
2. Javed Miandad
3. Sachin Tendulkar
4. Mohammad Azharuddin
5. Navjot Singh Sidhu
6. Saurav Ganguly
7. Mahela Jayawardena
8. Kumar Sangakkara
9. Virender Sehwag
10. Saeed Anwar
11. Mohammad Yousuf
12. Steve Waugh
13. Jacques Kallis
14. Andy Flower
15. Hashim Amla

Sanga? LMAO.

Ranatunga, Gurusinghe, Samaraweera and Tillekaratne were fine players of spin, especially the first one. Cronje and Cullinan played spin better than Kallis. Shahid Afridi must be there too.

 

[abmk]

Shahid Afridi must be there too.

umm, no ....

 

[weldone]

Sanga? LMAO.

Ranatunga, Gurusinghe, Samaraweera and Tillekaratne were fine players of spin, especially the first one. Cronje and Cullinan played spin better than Kallis. Shahid Afridi must be there too.

Gurusinghe and Tillekaratne were good players of spin, Ranatunga and Samaraweera have been exceptionally good. But I personally find Sangakkara to be a touch better than the last 2, Samaweera has the chance of overtaking him in future though.

Cronje and Cullinan were good players of spin (except when Cullinan faced Warne). But to me, they have been a few miles behind Kallis and Amla in that respect. Kallis has been very underrated against spin.

Shahid Afridi ?!? O yeah, Harbhajan also plays spin well.

 

[Himannv]

Mahela tends to be very comfortable against spin. Even on raging turners he works the ball around with class and ease while everyone else bat as though getting bat to ball is an impossibility.

Sanga is a fantastic player but I dont think he's that good against spin. I feel he isn't really comfortable with the ball turning away from him too much. He's not bad of course but there are better players of spin than him around. He's great against pace though.

 

[weldone]

Mahela tends to be very comfortable against spin. Even on raging turners he works the ball around with class and ease while everyone else bat as though getting bat to ball is an impossibility.

Sanga is a fantastic player but I dont think he's that good against spin. I feel he isn't really comfortable with the ball turning away from him too much. He's not bad of course but there are better players of spin than him around. He's great against pace though.

Agree with the part about Mahela completely.

About Sanga, yes he might not have the correct instinct for the ball turning away from him. But that's never a huge issue. I feel even to Tendulkar playing LHS doesn't come very naturally. That doesn't stop him from being one of the best batsmen against spin. Playing spin is as much about application as talent, if not more. Players like Tendulkar and Sangakkara have worked on their spin play to perfection. On talent alone, I shall place Sehwag or Ganguly above Tendulkar when it comes to playing spin. But I personally feel Tendulkar has worked hard on his game and played some stellar innings against top quality spin. That's what it matters at the end of the day. Ranatunga was extremely talented against spin, faced Warne with ease. But if I had to choose one between Sanga and Ranatunga to make a double century against spin bowling, I shall take Sanga 10 times out of 10. There is much more than pure talent that is required to play big innings against spin. I think I've mentioned this earlier in this thread - by good players of spin I don't mean only dominating players; a 50 off 40 balls against spin is worth less than a 100 off 170 balls to me - talking in crude terms.

And yeah, I think Sanga is a very good player of pace - a better player of pace and bounce than of pace and swing IMO...but that's the topic for a separate thread.

 

[Himannv]

Fair enough. I can agree with that.

 

[SJS]

I'm not denying the ATG status of that Galle knock, it was a freaking awesome knock for sure.

But to me he never looked very comfortable against an in-form Muralitharan, he looked suspicious against his doosra when Murali was at his best. He dominated the waning master for sure. But remember Muralitharan didn't keep Sehwag in his list of 10 best batsmen he bowled to.

There is a different point about Sehwag that I want to point out here. His natural style of play is way too aggressive than all other batsmen I've seen, which is good. And that's the reason when he gets going, it might seem like he's the maestro at work. Take this in contrast to the likes of Miandad, Azhar, Mahela or Sanga - who are technically brilliant against spin. These are kinds of players who are equally comfortable while defending, manouvering and attacking spin. Comparing spin-play of Sehwag against these players is like comparing pace-play of Ponting against, say, Sunil Gavaskar. Due to the natural aggressive style of play, Ponting is definitely a more dominating player of pace than Sunny, but does that make him a better player of pace than Sunny?

On the other hand, I can never forget the way Lara dominated both Warne and Muralitharan at their respective primes. I don't think anyone else came even close to achieving that. Even Tendulkar, who dominated Warne probably more than Lara throughout was merely good against Murali and a little suspect against Saqlain. Not only Warne and Muralitharan are the two best spinners of this generation by far, their bowling style is so very different from each other that dominating both of them 'in their respective primes' puts Lara on a different plane than anyone else for my money.

The essential difference between Tendulkar and Lara's batting (besides the obvious one about how they held the bat) has been their footwork. Lara had the better footwork in my opinion. It is difficult to think of anyone with better footwork in a half a century of watching test cricketers than him and Sobers.

Coming back to the two contemporaries, Lara's stepping out decisively to the spinners and taking the ball on the half volley is the basic difference between his and Sachin's approach to spinners. Sachin did it only selectively during his career while Lara did it all the time. That has been my main reason to prefer Lara's style over Sachin's for most of their bating careers much to the chagrin of my Indian friends :-)

Sachin would have been an even greater batsman (yes it is possible to improve God) had he not been reluctant to go after upto the pitch of the ball except when he felt in the mood. Lara did it all the time. His footwork was closer to Bradman's in that respect. He went right back when playing back and went right upto the ball when the ball was tossed up. Sachin, inspite of looking wonderful when stepping out, has shown a marked reluctance to do so for long spells in his career. That is a major difference between the young Sachin and the latter day avatar.

Even in backfoot play, Sachin used to go back and across more decisively in his younger days than latter. You cant find faults with it because of his record in the game and his other immense qualities in batting but the difference remains and this difference has made Sachin look more circumspect at times against spinners. It is a shame really for he is blessed with great footwork as he shows now and again when he feels like it but it isn't an essential part of his batting. With Lara it was integral.

Sachin prefers to play the ball off the wicket and uses his great hands and fabulous balance to play it so well even if not right on top of it. Lara preferred to move a nano second later but like lightening going very quickly back or right up in fast and decisive steps. Footwork is key to Lara's batting, balance and great hands to Sachin's and therein lies the difference to their approach to spinners.

This is not to say that sachin does not have great footwork or Lara great balance and hands but the emphasis is different.

 

[Flem274*]

Fleming is the only player I've never been scared will get out when Murali is bowling. Starting to get the same ****iness over Williamson.

 

[SteveNZ]

Michael Clarke is the best I've seen, although he didn't have to contend with too much with our spinners. He's all class against turn.

 

[Spark]

Clarke is an interesting case.

When he bats properly, in the Michael Clarke mode - aggressive forward movement, looking to ping mid off/mid-on/midwicket at any opportunity, I would suggest he is quite comfortably in the very top tier against spin. Can absolutely murder you even on decks which are turning square.

The problem is that he doesn't always bat in the Michael Clarke mode. I know this will sound odd, but people who watched the Galle Test will know what I mean. First dig came out all weird and decided to play mostly from the crease, and got hit in front by an arm ball. Second dig decided to take the spinners on, scoring at an insane pace given the difficulty of batting on the deck - and it's no surprise that the shot that eventually lost him his wicket is the one shot that doesn't come naturally to him, the sweep.

Most often it's his own head that gets in the way. Why else would he struggle for a few Tests against someone like Paul Harris?

 

[smash84]

agree with that. A lot of times he doesn't look very good against the spinners. At other times he is extremely good against them

 

[G.I.Joe]

Clarke is an interesting case.

When he bats properly, in the Michael Clarke mode - aggressive forward movement, looking to ping mid off/mid-on/midwicket at any opportunity, I would suggest he is quite comfortably in the very top tier against spin. Can absolutely murder you even on decks which are turning square.

The problem is that he doesn't always bat in the Michael Clarke mode. I know this will sound odd, but people who watched the Galle Test will know what I mean. First dig came out all weird and decided to play mostly from the crease, and got hit in front by an arm ball. Second dig decided to take the spinners on, scoring at an insane pace given the difficulty of batting on the deck - and it's no surprise that the shot that eventually lost him his wicket is the one shot that doesn't come naturally to him, the sweep.

Most often it's his own head that gets in the way. Why else would he struggle for a few Tests against someone like Paul Harris?

I remember that. I'd chosen the most inopportune moment to talk up his footwork

 

[Spark]

Well he played one of the best innings of his career next dig so it wasn't too bad.