Ponting vs Kallis

[BoyBrumby]

Kallis by a good margin. Plays both spin and pace well. Carried his team on his shoulder for many many years. It's a pity that he didn't have good batsmen around him for much of his career so he took the anchor role for his team. I wish he was a little selfish and given up his bowling and concentrated on his batting alone, I bet he would have been even better batsman. Ponting was a good batsman but he wasn't that great against spin and being a part of a champion team gives little bit freedom to take more risks. He's behind Draivd.

Pfft. Kirsten, Gibbs, Cullinan, Smith, Prince, Amla, de Villiers...

Hacks to a man, obvz.

 

[Furball]

Kallis by a good margin. Plays both spin and pace well. Carried his team on his shoulder for many many years. It's a pity that he didn't have good batsmen around him for much of his career so he took the anchor role for his team. I wish he was a little selfish and given up his bowling and concentrated on his batting alone, I bet he would have been even better batsman. Ponting was a good batsman but he wasn't that great against spin and being a part of a champion team gives little bit freedom to take more risks. He's behind Draivd.

Either you're trolling for a reaction or this is an incredibly stupid post.

 

[smash84]

I think its both

 

[akilana]

Pfft. Kirsten, Gibbs, Cullinan, Smith, Prince, Amla, de Villiers...

Hacks to a man, obvz.

Amla and De Villiers just came onto the scene three years before.

Gibbs and Kirsten /= the strength of the Australian batting line up and Gibbs was so inconsistent.

 

[akilana]

Conversely, Ponting was all too willing. He played in a way that made it easier for the others to bat with him and came at the crease, every time, willing to be our Atlas.

and also having ATG opening partners and some of the best batsmen of all time behind you help you not worry about team and allows you to make more risks.

 

[Prince EWS]

Pfft. Kirsten, Gibbs, Cullinan, Smith, Prince, Amla, de Villiers...

Hacks to a man, obvz.

Must have been so hard for you.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I'm pretty sure Smith has a girlfriend, PEWS.

 

[centurymaker]

I wish he was a little selfish and given up his bowling and concentrated on his batting alone, I bet he would have been even better batsman.

Thats a good point actually.

 

[abmk]

It was interesting back in the 90's how they compared, Ponting was a better player much earlier, handled Donald, Ambrose, Wasim etc all really well, whereas Kallis struggled against the WI and Pakistan for awhile, but like Ponting and Hayden he really cashed in when so many great bowlers retired, but still had issues with McGrath,warn and Murali (in fact just about every SL bowler!).

Actually Kallis handled Ambrose/Walsh well and was stellar in the 97 series in SA ( was a low-scoring series in general ) - better than ponting who did just ok against them ( avg about 40 )

Ponting didn't face much of Wasim either. He was out for 3 successive ducks in 99 ( wasim, waqar and akhthar once each IIRC ) in the 99 series and then made a very good 197 in the 3rd test.

Ponting did handle Donald well , but he didn't really face him at his prime that much ( 92-2000 ) - only one series in Aus in 97 ( 2 tests )

 

[Howe_zat]

I'm pretty sure Smith has a girlfriend, PEWS.

Gold. Why does this post not have half a dozen lol smileys in reply to it?

 

[centurymaker]

Actually Kallis handled Ambrose/Walsh well and was stellar in the 97 series in SA ( was a low-scoring series in general ) - better than ponting who did just ok against them ( avg about 40 )

Ponting didn't face much of Wasim either. He was out for 3 successive ducks in 99 ( wasim, waqar and akhthar once each IIRC ) in the 99 series and then made a very good 197 in the 3rd test.

Ponting did handle Donald well , but he didn't really face him at his prime that much ( 92-2000 ) - only one series in Aus in 97 ( 2 tests )

WHAT!!??

What more could you want from a great batsman going head to head against great bowlers?
avg of 40 is actually a decent avg. (judging by a great batsman's standards)
avg of 45+ is very good
avg of 50+ is excellent.

If you can avg 45 against great bowling attacks, then you are bound to have an overall avg of well into the 50s...

If a great bowler allowed most great batsman of his era to avg 50+ against his line-up, then I'd find it hard to consider that bowler a genuine great TBH.

It's great v great. You don't expect either party to have a total dominance over the other!!

 

[marc71178]

I wish he was a little selfish and given up his bowling and concentrated on his batting alone,

Yes, because when you think about Kallis the last thing you'd think is that he's selfish or thinks of himself over the team at any point.

 

[Top_Cat]

When he was having his monster run with the bat a few years ago, didn't he bowl much less anyway? Without checking, I remember he took quite a few wickets against Zimbo/Bangla but his overs were well down against anyone else.

 

[marc71178]

Oh yes, that old one. Amazingly the niggles he had when facing England had cleared up a week or so later when Zimbabwe were playing.

 

[morgieb]

Are we judging them as batsmen or cricketers? Cos it's pretty conclusive for both of them depending on which one you're talking about...

 

[NUFAN]

When he was having his monster run with the bat a few years ago, didn't he bowl much less anyway? Without checking, I remember he took quite a few wickets against Zimbo/Bangla but his overs were well down against anyone else.

Yeah exactly. The only thing overrated about Kallis is his bowling.

I think it's fare to say that Australia, India and England have been the best batting teams that Kallis has bowled against. He's taken 112 wickets from 68 matches at an average of 36.68. Useful, but nothing special.

Ponting is one of the batsman who once he retires, you would be better served looking at his prolonged excellence in the middle of his career when he was at his prime. He took a few years to get to that amazing level and out of pride and the fact that he was the captain he's played for a few years too long at a level below his peak. But I think it's pretty obvious that he just loves playing Test Cricket and isn't really concerned about his end average.

There is way more to Ponting than just his average, as a batsman he was absolutely sensational, so it says a lot about Kallis that he's right up there too.

 

[centurymaker]

Yeah exactly. The only thing overrated about Kallis is his bowling.

I think it's fare to say that Australia, India and England have been the best batting teams that Kallis has bowled against. He's taken 112 wickets from 68 matches at an average of 36.68. Useful, but nothing special.

.

Thats a 15% drop in his avg. I think most players experience that sort of drop tbh when you only look at their record against the top few sides...

for instance look at johnson's stats here. he avgs in the mid 30's against most sides but his overall avg is 30...
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Morkel-
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Swann- 40 against india and aus, yet has an overall avg of 28...
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo


If you are avg'ing 32 as a bowler, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are avging 32 against the best teams. It's just an avereage/mean which tends to be inflated by performances against mediocre opponents/ in favourable conditions etc.

for instance, a great avg'ing 55 with the bat almost certainly won't avg 50+ if most opposition had a great bowling attack...

 

[NUFAN]

If you are avg'ing 32 as a bowler, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are avging 32 against the best teams. It's just an avereage/mean which tends to be inflated by performances against mediocre opponents/ in favourable conditions etc.

for instance, a great avg'ing 55 with the bat almost certainly won't avg 50+ if most opposition had a great bowling attack...

Thanks buddy, I could have used this advise 20 years ago.

I like Kallis, he is a top batsman and will go down as a champion of the game. Often you hear about all rounders being able to make the team in either discipline. I've never thought that Kallis could make the South African team on bowling alone, particularly against any quality opposition.

Of course if he wasn't making a ****load of runs all the time he would have been fresher and probably would have bowled better.

 

[centurymaker]

Thanks buddy, I could have used this advise 20 years ago.

I like Kallis, he is a top batsman and will go down as a champion of the game. Often you hear about all rounders being able to make the team in either discipline. I've never thought that Kallis could make the South African team on bowling alone, particularly against any quality opposition.

Of course if he wasn't making a ****load of runs all the time he would have been fresher and probably would have bowled better.

Yea agree. He's just been an ok bowler in his career by international standards. At times, he's produced something special, but majority of the time he's been taken off after only a handful of overs...
He's neither a part-time bowler nor a proper bowler. He's somewhere in between..

 

[smash84]

awta. Somewhere between part time and regular