A.F.L. Thread II

[Redbacks]

Pretty sure AFL is the best code in Australia at expanding.

Dominates Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia, Western Australia and the NT.

Making significant inroads into NSW and northern Queensland and south east Queensland is becoming AFL territory.

Outside of international expansion, I'm not sure what else you want them to do.

The game dominated in those 5 areas prior to the AFL and not much has changed.

Technically Port has failed (15 million in debt + 100's millions for the oval upgrade), I don't blame the AFL but it's a sign that the market has halved in SA in the past 10 years. Well see just how much cash they will pump into the new clubs also. The Lions and Swans have been bailed out before, and given extra money to give them success.

Without bailouts the Swans and Lions would have failed as well.

 

[morgieb]

Yeah it appears that unlike the NRL, most coaches play top-level footy, and a few of them (Matthews, Hird, Voss, etc.) are somewhat like ATG's.

 

[Redbacks]

I don't see how, but if anything the only thing holding back football in SA is the SANFL, not the AFL.

People now would prefer to let the licenses go and see the clubs go it alone, just a shame that the SANFL clubs have done a deal with the devil in SA. The SANFL negotiated pokies deals for all the 9 clubs to decrease takings from AFL matches to keep the Crows and Port running, football in this state now runs on problem gambling (foley a port man, you can connect the dots). It's like most public bodies, a complete basket case. Nobody is blowing harder over the Wilkie pokie scheme than the local clubs.

 

[Burgey]

Interesting since he won Grand Finals with Richmond.

Richmond won Grand Finals?

FMD, even I'm not that old.

 

[benchmark00]

The game dominated in those 5 areas prior to the AFL and not much has changed.

Technically Port has failed (15 million in debt + 100's millions for the oval upgrade), I don't blame the AFL but it's a sign that the market has halved in SA in the past 10 years. Well see just how much cash they will pump into the new clubs also. The Lions and Swans have been bailed out before, and given extra money to give them success.

Without bailouts the Swans and Lions would have failed as well.

Yeah but bailouts in non-AFL dominated areas is a neccessary evil. You have to be prepared to take the losses for a while before they find their feet (usually after a premiership).

Port are failing because the SANFL owns their soul, and have such a poor business model.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah it appears that unlike the NRL, most coaches play top-level footy, and a few of them (Matthews, Hird, Voss, etc.) are somewhat like ATG's.

I think most NRL players played top level:

Bellamy
Hasler
Bennett
Cleary
Sheens
Kearney
Dymock & Kevin Moore
Elliott
Cartwright

That's ten clubs I can think of off the top of my head, but certainly it seems most all of the AFL coaches are ex-VFL/ AFL or other state equivalents.

 

[Redbacks]

Yeah it appears that unlike the NRL, most coaches play top-level footy, and a few of them (Matthews, Hird, Voss, etc.) are somewhat like ATG's.

The speculation is that given the courage to play at the top level, in very physical sports the coach needs to ask the players to put their bodies on the line, like he had before them. Something like BBall and Soccer (forced by the FA requiring a teachers license in the early days) often can be run by specialist managers. AVB, Benitez and Jose recent examples.

 

[Redbacks]

Port are failing because the SANFL owns their soul, and have such a poor business model.

They screwed the SANFL as we all know by stabbing everyone in the back and trying to negotiate a deal with the VFL. The Crows being the team created via that backlash. No surprise they have few friends in SA, and boy do they play the victim card now when the 9 clubs who own the license ask for scrutiny when the SANFL hands over millions.

They are a club of front runners. In 1997 they signed a deal that would see them make money from attendances of 35,000 per game. Had they done this the financial model would still be in order today. With 350,000+ fans, comparable with many Victorian clubs, and cheaper tickets this has failed. I don't see why the SANFL are to blame.

 

[Redbacks]

Yeah but bailouts in non-AFL dominated areas is a neccessary evil. You have to be prepared to take the losses for a while before they find their feet (usually after a premiership).

For a decent comparison:

Do the Storm or Warriors need financial aid?

Pretty much every A-league team bar Melbourne and possibly Perth/CCM have needed handouts.

What about the Force and Rebels?

 

[morgieb]

I think most NRL players played top level:

Bellamy
Hasler
Bennett
Cleary
Sheens
Kearney
Dymock & Kevin Moore
Elliott
Cartwright

That's ten clubs I can think of off the top of my head, but certainly it seems most all of the AFL coaches are ex-VFL/ AFL or other state equivalents.

Yeah true. McClennan, Griffin (and the first 2 played in NZ and Brisbane comps) & Henry are the only ones I can think of atm.

Most AFL coaches did have longish careers though......the likes of Price, Magurie, Smith, Flanagan didn't play a lot of FG.

 

[benchmark00]

@Redbacks:

You can't compare NRL the the AFL. The Storm need financial assistance, it's just that they get that from News Limited as they're owned by them, not the NRL.

But if you did want an example of an organisation who ****ed up expansion, look at the NRL.

What happened to their WA and SA teams? GC are failing, as are a number of other teams.

 

[morgieb]

For a decent comparison:

Do the Storm or Warriors need financial aid?

Pretty much every A-league team bar Melbourne and possibly Perth/CCM have needed handouts.

What about the Force and Rebels?

Storm were (and maybe still are) propped up by News Limited, and the Warriors almost folded in 2000.

 

[howardj]

Re expansion.

We've seen this season that a tipping point has been reached. To my mind there is not enough cattle to man the teams. Port, Lions, Gold Coast, Richmond, Melbourne especially were unwatchable at various times throughout the year. I just don't know what you get out of expanding further into the essentially the same areas - Sydney and South East Queensland. To my mind, it just weakens the playing ranks across the board, it dilutes the playing stocks for no real benefit in terms of exposing new people to the game. There are only two teams in AFL strongholds SA and WA, so why would you force feed Sydney and South East Queensland another team? To my mind a superstrong Swans and a strong Lions is better than two four teams in those areas.

 

[Burgey]

@Redbacks:

You can't compare NRL the the AFL. The Storm need financial assistance, it's just that they get that from News Limited as they're owned by them, not the NRL.

But if you did want an example of an organisation who ****ed up expansion, look at the NRL.

What happened to their WA and SA teams? GC are failing, as are a number of other teams.

I think the GC will be ok long term. They should have stuck with Perth IMO. Adrelaide was questionable at best.

And yes, the Drizzle are owned by News Ltd and would fold without them I'm sure. The Warriors did fold in the early 2000s, tehy were formerly the Auckland Warriors.

 

[benchmark00]

Re expansion.

We've seen this season that a tipping point has been reached. To my mind there is not enough cattle to man the teams. Port, Lions, Gold Coast, Richmond, Melbourne especially were unwatchable at various times throughout the year. I just don't know what you get out of expanding further into the essentially the same areas - Sydney and South East Queensland. To my mind, it just weakens the playing ranks across the board, it dilutes the playing stocks for no real benefit in terms of exposing new people to the game. There are only two teams in AFL strongholds SA and WA, so why would you force feed Sydney and South East Queensland another team? To my mind a superstrong Swans and a strong Lions is better than two four teams in those areas.

I'm sure you can appreciate that Western Sydney and Eastern Sydney are two totally different markets.

And the issue of dilluting the playing pool is true in the short term. But by moving into these markets, you increase the playing pool in the future, so it won't be diluted at all.

 

[morgieb]

And the Perth/Adelaide **** is because of Super League, which really ****ed up the ARL's expansion plans.

 

[morgieb]

I'm sure you can appreciate that Western Sydney and Eastern Sydney are two totally different markets.

And the issue of dilluting the playing pool is true in the short term. But by moving into these markets, you increase the playing pool in the future, so it won't be diluted at all.

Yeah Eastern Sydney has real people and not rednecks

 

[Spikey]

In summary, the SANFL sucks and is killing football in SA because they see the two AFL teams as cash cows to help their support league and that only and SA people can try to blame victorians all they want

 

[Burgey]

Yeah Eastern Sydney has real people and not rednecks

Die in a fire, ****.

 

[Burgey]

In summary, the SANFL sucks and is killing football in SA because they see the two AFL teams as cash cows to help their support league and that only and SA people can try to blame victorians all they want

And Adelaide water is awful, it should be said.