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Garry Sobers v Imran Khan,Test Cricket:Poll

Who was the better Test cricketer: Imran or Sobers?


  • Total voters
    169

Agent Nationaux

International Coach
Can the mods lock this thread. It's not going anywhere because we will have the Imran and Wasim supporters arguing their case. Same for the Marshall, Sobers and McGrath supporters. And now we have Darth insulting other posters by calling them idiots.
 

BlazeDragon

Banned
Another Filter. This time it may actually convince you.
lol. When you actually figure out how to actually properly look up stats you will see that those are the most basic stats of the overall teams of those era. Would you like me to tell you step by step of how I got those to prove it because I can if you want me to.

I would really love to know how many buttons you played around with to get the stats that you came up with.
 

BlazeDragon

Banned
Yes, Imran's record in Pakistan against India should be taken with a pinch of salt just like his record in India. If you find that it is youtube worthy, then it is your problem and perhaps shows how far away you are from reality. Indian/Pakistani umpire didn't shy away form displaying their bias during those days.
All right then. His record in both Pakistan and India doesn't prove anything then.
 

BlazeDragon

Banned
Yes and that is the best way you can save the face in the Mcgrath Vs. Marshall argument. Because Statistically your choice of Mcgrath over Marshall even after era adjustment, doesn't make sense.

So either accept that Marshall is better, purely from a statistical PoV or accept that you don't depend on statistics completely when deciding who is a better player.
I can't figure out if you have read the stats at all or just choosing to ignore them. Marshall is most certainly not ahead of Mcgrath in stats once you adjust to the era. The team statistics that was posted above shows that.

Would you like me to copy and paste it here so you can see it better?
 
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Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
All right then. His record in both Pakistan and India doesn't prove anything then.
His record against INDIA in both Pakistan/India doesn't prove anything. Of course his record in the entire subcontinent (India, Pak, SL combined) does prove that he was an outstanding bowler in the subcontinent partly because those were his home conditions.

Does that mean I will take him ahead of Marshall/Hadlee to bowl on Subcontinent tracks ? No. The simple reason is that IMO Marshall/Hadlee were simply better bowlers than Imran IMO under any conditions against any opposition.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
I can't figure out if you have read the stats at all or just choosing to ignore them. Marshall is most certainly not ahead of Mcgrath in stats once you adjust to the era. The team statistics that was posted above shows that.

Would you like me to copy and paste it here so you can see it better?
Where did you do the Calculation using Era adjustment ? All I saw was some manipulated batting statistics.

Please do calculate Mcgrath's average, ER and SR for Marshall's era and vice-versa. I already did the era adjustment and I posted the values here that showed that Statistically Mcgrath didn't trump Marshall even after era adjustment.
 

BlazeDragon

Banned
His record against INDIA in both Pakistan/India doesn't prove anything. Of course his record in the entire subcontinent (India, Pak, SL combined) does prove that he was an outstanding bowler in the subcontinent partly because those were his home conditions.
Yeah sure umpires only gave favorable decisions when India was involved I'm sure. If your gonna use that logic use it all the way through.
 

BlazeDragon

Banned
Where did you do the Calculation using Era adjustment ? All I saw was some manipulated batting statistics.

Please do calculate Mcgrath's average, ER and SR for Marshall's era and vice-versa. I already did the era adjustment and I posted the values here that showed that Statistically Mcgrath didn't trump Marshall even after era adjustment.
Again with this manipulated stats junk. :yawn:

Seriously explain how those are "manipulated" in any ways. Those are the overall batting stats of the teams in both era which shows either that it was the era of flat tracks or the West Indies faced some pretty weak teams. Show us your "non manipulated" stats with a link this time to prove its wrong or otherwise your just randomly blabbering here.
 
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Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Again with this manipulated stats junk. :yawn:

Seriously explain how those are "manipulated" in any ways. Those are the overall batting stats of the teams in both era which shows either that it was the era of flat tracks or the West Indies faced some pretty weak teams. Show us your "non manipulated" stats with a link this time to prove its wrong or otherwise your just randomly blabbering here.
Those are manipulated because Avg. Runs/wicket does not indicate batting was harder in any era. Infact it means nothing. Here is an example why :-

Batting Stats in 2009 -

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Batting Stats in 2010

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2009;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team
 

BlazeDragon

Banned
Those are manipulated because Avg. Runs/wicket does not indicate batting was harder in any era. Infact it means nothing. Here is an example why :-

Batting Stats in 2009 -

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Batting Stats in 2010

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
lol you just provided two stats of the same era a year after another. How does that prove anything?

All that shows is that the Indian team of 2010 batted better than the South African team of 2009. I don't see any problem with that.
 
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Flem274*

123/5
Obviously you can't lift your game. The thread will be closed for at least 24 hours and don't be surprised if further consequences come your way.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Right, I'm reopening this thread. You're welcome to debate the topic, but if I see any crap, it gets closed immediately and this time for good. Then we get to decide what to do with the offender(s), and I will vote infraction.

There's one golden rule: Respect your fellow poster.
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Garry Sobers is among the all time greatest cricketers in the world. In terms of talent, he was perhaps more talented even.

When you are debating Sobers vs Imran or Lara vs Tendulkar or Lillee vs Marshall, basically two all time great cricketers, it is always subjective. Both sides have strong arguments and stats and ultimately you are going to pick a player based on what factors and criteria you give more emphasis to.

I do not think Garry Sobers was a match winner with ball, just like I don't think Kallis is a match winner with the ball.

Imran on the other hand, won matches for Pakistan with his batting. So basically in my view, he is a match winner with the bat and the ball and that is why I will pick him over Sobers.

Of course there are other factors which would go in favour of Sobers and they could be factors others value more.

It is important to respect subjectivity and preferences when it comes to these discussions.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Garry Sobers is among the all time greatest cricketers in the world. In terms of talent, he was perhaps more talented even.

When you are debating Sobers vs Imran or Lara vs Tendulkar or Lillee vs Marshall, basically two all time great cricketers, it is always subjective. Both sides have strong arguments and stats and ultimately you are going to pick a player based on what factors and criteria you give more emphasis to.

I do not think Garry Sobers was a match winner with ball, just like I don't think Kallis is a match winner with the ball.

Imran on the other hand, won matches for Pakistan with his batting. So basically in my view, he is a match winner with the bat and the ball and that is why I will pick him over Sobers.

Of course there are other factors which would go in favour of Sobers and they could be factors others value more.

It is important to respect subjectivity and preferences when it comes to these discussions.

Oh yes he was! :p
 

Black_Warrior

Cricketer Of The Year
Well I havent seen him play, going by his stats, his averages are usually around 30 against most teams, that is not a match winning bowler in my books. But I am aware of trolls on this forum, so I would add that it does nothing to diminish his value in my books...anyone who averages 57 with the bat and 30 odd with the ball is an all time great player straight away.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I wouldn't seek to suggest he'd have played anything like 93 Tests if he was a rabbit with the bat, but taking your initial post literally there were certainly occasions when he put in match winning performances with the ball
 

99.94

Cricket Spectator
Both cricketers for me personally have epitomised what it means to be an allrounder, both in very different ways, have they succeeded and despite averages and statistics, IMO its very hard to sperate them. arguably you could look at Sobers and immediately say that he is the greatest we've seen, his batting was immense just behind the don's, bowling varied so much (extra finger might have helped!) , whether it be spin, swing or medium pace he had it, and his very underrated fileding as well.

Though as in general just on the basis on a cricket allrounder, its fair to say he is supreme, but as a test cricketer compared with imran, its a different story. Sure the bowling being supreme to imran, but despite sobers fielding and batting being considerably better than the latter, sobers does seem to have an edge, but for Imran his greatest strength was his captaincy. Tenacious captain who always gave 110%, and to consistency play for 20 years and at the end, retire with the biggest prize of them all is unimaginable, not to forget how his role helped in alot of new good yongsters who arguably are rated as greats now from pakistan i.e. the two W's and inzamam.

Overall, on the basis of a crickter, its hard personally to separate these two on my basis, they both have done wonderful jobs in different ways but in equal quantities it could be argued, thus for me I find it very difficult to seperate these two, sure you could look at other things such as records from sobers with his 360 odd and six 6's, but were not simply judging them on an allround position, more as a cricketer! Two great legends, two great warriors, they're inseperable!
 
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smash84

The Tiger King
Both cricketers for me personally have epitomised what it means to be an allrounder, both in very different ways, have they succeeded and despite averages and statistics, IMO its very hard to sperate them. arguably you could look at Sobers and immediately say that he is the greatest we've seen, his batting was immense just behind the don's, bowling varied so much (extra finger might have helped!) , whether it be spin, swing or medium pace he had it, and his very underrated fileding as well.

Though as in general just on the basis on a cricket allrounder, its fair to say he is supreme, but as a test cricketer compared with imran, its a different story. Sure the bowling being supreme to sobers, but despite sobers fielding and batting being considerably better than the latter, sobers does seem to have an edge, but for Imran his greatest strength was his captaincy. Tenacious captain who always gave 110%, and to consistency play for 20 years and at the end, retire with the biggest prize of them all is unimaginable, not to forget how his role helped in alot of new good yongsters who arguably are rated as greats now from pakistan i.e. the two W's and inzamam.

Overall, on the basis of a crickter, its hard personally to separate these two on my basis, they both have done wonderful jobs in different ways but in equal quantities it could be argued, thus for me I find it very difficult to seperate these two, sure you could look at other things such as records from sobers with his 360 odd and six 6's, but were not simply judging them on an allround position, more as a cricketer! Two great legends, two great warriors, they're inseperable!
:thumbup:
 

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