Butt/Amir/Asif - Spot Fixing Trial

[GIMH]

I certainly wouldn't have taken bribes at 18. Don't get me wrong, I was a **** at that age (still am) and did plenty of ****, but wouldn't dream of doing anything like that.

 

[fredfertang]

I certainly wouldn't have taken bribes at 18. Don't get me wrong, I was a **** at that age (still am) and did plenty of ****, but wouldn't dream of doing anything like that.

... are you absolutely certain of that? what if someone you had the greatest respect for assured you it was OK?

 

[GIMH]

At the age of 18, nobody could have persuaded me to do that. I am absolutely certain.

Quite a tricky hypothetical question of course, as there is nobody I had such respect for at that age who would try and persuade me to do such a thing, if that makes sense?

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I commend you for that and the rest of the people here also wouldn't take a bribe. But money is the most powerful motivator and well Amir caught a whiff of it and was hooked. There are hundreds of people out there who have made mistakes due to gambling and other addictions. And all they want is to be given a chance to make a fresh start. Why is Amir any different. Why shouldn't he get a second chance.

 

[fredfertang]

I've no doubt that at 18 I wouldn't have taken a bribe either - but if I had been playing sport in an unfamiliar country on the other side of the world at 18 I'm not so certain that in these circumstances my skipper wouldn't have been able to persuade me that there was no harm in doing waht Amir did

 

[GIMH]

I've no doubt that at 18 I wouldn't have taken a bribe either - but if I had been playing sport in an unfamiliar country on the other side of the world at 18 I'm not so certain that in these circumstances my skipper wouldn't have been able to persuade me that there was no harm in doing waht Amir did

If playing that sport had been your lifelong dream though? I dunno. I think the guy is cleverer than he makes out. Wearing the weed t-shirt to the hearing, playing the game in Essex or wherever. All seems very calculated to me, trying to give off the innocent perception.

I am a much less forgiving man than yourself of course.

 

[fredfertang]

If playing that sport had been your lifelong dream though? I dunno. I think the guy is cleverer than he makes out. Wearing the weed t-shirt to the hearing, playing the game in Essex or wherever. All seems very calculated to me, trying to give off the innocent perception.

I am a much less forgiving man than yourself of course.

This is of course true, by way of example I'm the only member to have thought your recent ban too severe

 

[Cevno]

It's not about being 18 only though. The whole context of where he comes from(his education,monetary background),his age,the dressing room dynamics and the situation he was in with regards to the other players needs to be viewed at compassionately and objectively. As i explained further in previous pages.

 

[zaremba]

Ha, tres bollo. Whilst one might sympathise with Mrs Warne, there's no suggestion Shane accepted money to underperform his husbandly duties, tens of thousands of spectators hadn't paid good money to watch them in the throes of connubial ecstacy and there wasn't a TV audience of millions hanging on the outcome.

Aamer's mea culpa about a year too late. Not only was he bent, he then repeatedly lied about it.

On this kind of form, there's not one of us that can hold a candle to yer man Brumby. A series of nails hammered home.

 

[zaremba]

You forget, that bowling a no ball deliberately did not lessen the enjoyment or the outcome of that match. It's not as grave as you suggest, or want to make it look like. It's just a bloody no ball in the end. End of.

Of course the spot fixing lessened the enjoyment of that game, and it's frankly ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, it did. Broad was on about 70 when I finished work and I was meeting a mate from work for drinks afterwards, so we went to Walkabout, sat on the balcony with the place pretty much to ourselves and watched Broad go to a ton, it was ****ing great, I was delighted. Felt sick when the news broke the following evening. Really can't wait for Broad to get another ton because that ruined it.

 

[NasserFan207]

Hope the kid returns to international cricket sooner rather than later. Will probably get slated but I don't give a ****, loved watching him bowl and I'm selfish

 

[GIMH]

Hope the kid returns to internation cricket sooner rather than later. Will probably get slated but I don't give a ****, loved watching him bowl and I'm selfish

I wish more people would come out with this sort of honesty tbh

 

[Cevno]

I wish more people would come out with this sort of honesty tbh

If someone else did it ,they would get shot down as ridiculous,nonsense,biased,immoral with several posts full of expletives tbh.

 

[GIMH]

Meh. I don't agree with his sentiment at all, but it's better than trying to come up with all these other reasons why he should be allowed to play

 

[zaremba]

Hope the kid returns to international cricket sooner rather than later. Will probably get slated but I don't give a ****, loved watching him bowl and I'm selfish

I've no problem with that. What he did should neither be underplayed nor overplayed. Just as the "it was only a couple of no balls" apologists are talking crap, so the lifetime ban advocates need to summon up a degree of proportionality IMHO

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I wish more people would come out with this sort of honesty tbh

But I really am a kind hearted person and very selfless, so obviously I am thinking purely for poor little Amir's sake

 

[Furball]

I've no problem with that. What he did should neither be underplayed nor overplayed. Just as the "it was only a couple of no balls" apologists are taking crap, so the lifetime ban advocates need to summon up a degree of proportionality IMHO

I loved watching Amir bowl and he was one of my favourite cricketers roughly 13 months ago.

I'm also one that advocates a life ban because ultimately the game is more important than any individual player. Regardless of whether it was "just" a couple of no-balls, the important thing to remember about the scandal is that it showed that an outsider could influence cricket matches through money. The actions of the disgraced trio has also, unfairly, called into question the integrity of plenty of matches involving the Pakistani team, including Australia's heist at Sydney when they came back from the dead to win a match that they had no right winning. That's the stain that's been left on the sport by the actions of the disgraced trio.

Ignorance/youthfulness/naivety/lack of education just aren't mitigating factors. A harsh punishment is absolutely warranted, because you set a dangerous precedent when you allow any of them to become factors in setting the punishment. Should someone like Alastair Cook, who's obviously well educated, receive a harsher punishment for a similar hypothetical crime because he's smarter? No. Punishment for a player needs to be completely detatched from any emotion sorrounding the case.

Ultimately, we're all cricket fans and we all wish that someone with the phenominal talent of Amir was still playing the game of cricket. But we shouldn't let this wish to see him play the game blind us to the fact that Amir ripped the piss out of the game by allowing his performance to be affected by accepting bribes, and has continually lied about his role in the scandal. For all the talent he has, the game is much better without such characters polluting the top levels.

 

[zaremba]

Sorry for the confusion, due to a typo my post said "taking crap" when I meant "talking crap".

Yes this was a serious case, but a life ban is an extreme sanction which in my view would have been disproportionately harsh.

The fact that the guy was 18 was relevant in two fairly obvious ways.

First, youth is a mitigating factor. No-one aged 18 has the same level of judgment, or resilience to persuasion or other forms of pressure, that they do when somewhat more mature.

And second, a life ban is a much longer sentence for an 18 year old than for someone in, say, his mid to late 20s. If Amir and Asif had both been banned for life, Asif's ban would effectively have been for about seven years longer and he'd have lost perhaps 90% of his Test career compared with perhaps 50% for Asif. So, the very young guy with a clean prior record ends up with a tougher sentence than the older repeat offender. Thats hardly fair, surely?

 

[Scaly piscine]

The poor boy Ameer arguments don't wash on any level. If he's not playing then someone else is. For all the things he misses out on someone else gets a shot. I prefer to think of the person who's missing out because that cheat is playing.

Every game before and after Ameer plays in will be sullied and the game of cricket itself is damaged. This goes way beyond one individual. If you look at the bigger picture there's only one punishment you can have - a life ban. The thought of Ameer playing again for Pakistan is just ghastly for the game, it will bring the spot fixing affair back into the spotlight. The focus will not be on the field of play. You can't underestimate the damage it will do. Personally I don't watch snooker any more since John Higgins agreed to lose some frames for a quarter of a million (he was let off with a pathetic 6 month ban in a whitewash, didn't miss any major tournaments).