Butt/Amir/Asif - Spot Fixing Trial

[Bun]

Ha, tres bollo. Whilst one might sympathise with Mrs Warne, there's no suggestion Shane accepted money to underperform his husbandly duties, tens of thousands of spectators hadn't paid good money to watch them in the throes of connubial ecstacy and there wasn't a TV audience of millions hanging on the outcome.

Aamer's mea culpa about a year too late. Not only was he bent, he then repeatedly lied about it.

You forget, that bowling a no ball deliberately did not lessen the enjoyment or the outcome of that match. It's not as grave as you suggest, or want to make it look like. It's just a bloody no ball in the end. End of,

These 10,000 people who watched this game didn't pledge to spend the rest of their lives with this chap. But Mrs. Warne did. For you and me, end of day, it's just a game, for her, it was her life.

Anyways enough of me pontificating. Summary of matter is : Sins are relative. So are absolutions. But whenever a person's crying out for it, his call must be answered. Otherwise how are we human?

 

[Bun]

This completely contradicts the rest of your post.

No mate, it doesn't. Read it again. People need not be disciplined through punishments alone. Sometimes forgiveness can set better deterrents.

 

[smash84]

The question that Bun points at is whether these (or any) crimes are forgivable? Spot-fixing.....tbh I didn't even know what it was before this episode (was aware of match-fixing) to what extent (if any) is pardonable? Does spot-fixing undermine the whole match? If it does then why did the ICC only hand out a 5 year ban?

 

[ankitj]

Bun is winning this thread, IMO.

I do have some empathy with Amer and would like to see him getting another chance, after whatever number of years of ban he serves. No such feelings for Butt and Asif, though.

 

[Furball]

The question that Bun points at is whether these (or any) crimes are forgivable? Spot-fixing.....tbh I didn't even know what it was before this episode (was aware of match-fixing) to what extent (if any) is pardonable? Does spot-fixing undermine the whole match? If it does then why did the ICC only hand out a 5 year ban?

Of course it does.

Amir and Asif might only have performed the "minor" crime of bowling no-balls to order, but how's that different to accepting cash to bowl poorly? They accepted cash bribes to underperform (iirc Amir had yet to bowl a no-ball in his entire First Class career before the incident).

Allowing charlatans such as these 3 to step out on a cricket field once their bans are done makes a mockery of the sport and makes a mockery of the thousands of players around the globe who play out of love for the game. All actions must have consequences.

 

[Furball]

Bun is winning this thread, IMO.

I do have some empathy with Amer and would like to see him getting another chance, after whatever number of years of ban he serves. No such feelings for Butt and Asif, though.

Why is Amir any different? If anything, Amir is the least deserving of empathy.

 

[Jono]

Had Amir not lied I'd be fine with him not being banned for life, whilst Butt and Asif clearly should be.

But his constant lying, and he knew what he was doing, removes the naivety defence.

 

[BoyBrumby]

You forget, that bowling a no ball deliberately did not lessen the enjoyment or the outcome of that match. It's not as grave as you suggest, or want to make it look like. It's just a bloody no ball in the end. End of,

These 10,000 people who watched this game didn't pledge to spend the rest of their lives with this chap. But Mrs. Warne did. For you and me, end of day, it's just a game, for her, it was her life.

Anyways enough of me pontificating. Summary of matter is : Sins are relative. So are absolutions. But whenever a person's crying out for it, his call must be answered. Otherwise how are we human?

You're really suggesting that deliberately underperforming in a sporting contest for a fiscal inducement with a view to defrauding bookmakers isn't "grave"?

I seriously have no response.

 

[ankitj]

Why is Amir any different? If anything, Amir is the least deserving of empathy.

I don't know great deal about Amer, the individual, may be he is filth, may be he is not. But he was just 18 when he transgressed, is still a teenager. He can be given another chance, his life and career have only just begun.

 

[Daemon]

Darn, at his age, I didn't know one needed to insert and ejaculate manship in womanship to create childship!

You didn't know what *** was when you were 18? ITSTL

You forget, that bowling a no ball deliberately did not lessen the enjoyment or the outcome of that match. It's not as grave as you suggest, or want to make it look like. It's just a bloody no ball in the end. End of,

These 10,000 people who watched this game didn't pledge to spend the rest of their lives with this chap. But Mrs. Warne did. For you and me, end of day, it's just a game, for her, it was her life.

Anyways enough of me pontificating. Summary of matter is : Sins are relative. So are absolutions. But whenever a person's crying out for it, his call must be answered. Otherwise how are we human?

The no ball was not all he may have done, it was done simply to prove to the 'client' (reporter) that Mazhar Majeed had influence and control over the players. He may have underperformed prior to this, or even more after if he hadn't been exposed.

Not only that, the guy clearly tried all ways and means to squirm his way out of this entire incident, lying outright about his involvement. What makes you think he genuinely felt that his actions were wrong if he doesn't even want to accept his wrongdoings? Pleading guilty after he had basically no option remaining doesn't do jack**** in convincing me that he feels remorse.

If he wasn't such a talented bastard no one would give a ****. 5 years is lenient enough, he can still make a comeback after that period and his career isn't entirely over. I understand that he's young and naive due to the culture that he was brought up in, which is why he has been given that chance to make a come back provided he works hard enough on his own.

Theres a reason why ignorance is never an accepted excuse, and I'm sure you know what that reason is. The effect that a severe ban will have on the trio is valuable to cricket as a whole, young players in the future won't take the risk of losing their entire career for money as opposed to losing out just a few years if they can simply feign ignorance.

 

[Bun]

You're really suggesting that deliberately underperforming in a sporting contest for a fiscal inducement with a view to defrauding bookmakers isn't "grave"?

I seriously have no response.

Not first, certainly not the last.

We are all acting too much holier than thou, here. Financial incentives can make even the worthiest of us go astray.

 

[fredfertang]

Surprised there is nothing on Auntie Beeb or cricinfo about this - if it's true I wonder if part of his contrition will be to turn Queen's evidence

 

[Furball]

I don't know great deal about Amer, the individual, may be he is filth, may be he is not. But he was just 18 when he transgressed, is still a teenager. He can be given another chance, his life and career have only just begun.

"He was just 18" isn't a valid defence when the guy has repeatedly lied about his involvment in the incident. He will (wrongly) get another chance, he will be 23 when his ban expires. Injury permitting, that gives him at least 10 years to forge a career at the top level.

He is also young enough to forge out an alternative career. But that career should not come in cricket. Punitive bans are needed in order to discourage others from following the same path as the disgraced Pakistani trio. As soon as you set the precedent of allowing ignorance to become a defence, you tread a dangerous path.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Not first, certainly not the last.

We are all acting too much holier than thou, here. Financial incentives can make even the worthiest of us go astray.

No, I don't buy that for a second. Several players have been approached by shadowy Indian "bookmakers" and very few have succumbed.

That others have taken money to influence games doesn't mitigate Aamer's actions at all. His youth might explain them, but it doesn't excuse them. It's insulting to every eigtheen year old to suggest otherwise.

 

[Z-Man]

The real problem begins for Salman Butt.
Amirs case is going to be based on Salman being the real culprit and forcing him to do this.

 

[jan]

TDarn, at his age, I didn't know one needed to insert and ejaculate manship in womanship to create childship!

You grew up in a remote orthodox monastery with no domestic animals?

I wonder if there would so much pro-Amir sentiment if he wasnt from Pakistan...

 

[fredfertang]

The real problem begins for Salman Butt.
Amirs case is going to be based on Salman being the real culprit and forcing him to do this.

If Amir has pleaded then unless he agrees to give evidence for the prosecution his case won't come into the trial of Asif and Butt

 

[GIMH]

Bun's family values trolling that he has adopted this week is a ****ing joke, seriously Bun, just get ****ed you horrible little ****

And comparing WWE to matchfixing is hilariously ********.

 

[Daemon]

lol infraction

 

[Bun]

You didn't know what *** was when you were 18? ITSTL



The no ball was not all he may have done, it was done simply to prove to the 'client' (reporter) that Mazhar Majeed had influence and control over the players. He may have underperformed prior to this, or even more after if he hadn't been exposed.

Not only that, the guy clearly tried all ways and means to squirm his way out of this entire incident, lying outright about his involvement. What makes you think he genuinely felt that his actions were wrong if he doesn't even want to accept his wrongdoings? Pleading guilty after he had basically no option remaining doesn't do jack**** in convincing me that he feels remorse.

If he wasn't such a talented bastard no one would give a ****. 5 years is lenient enough, he can still make a comeback after that period and his career isn't entirely over. I understand that he's young and naive due to the culture that he was brought up in, which is why he has been given that chance to make a come back provided he works hard enough on his own.

Theres a reason why ignorance is never an accepted excuse, and I'm sure you know what that reason is. The effect that a severe ban will have on the trio is valuable to cricket as a whole, young players in the future won't take the risk of losing their entire career for money as opposed to losing out just a few years if they can simply feign ignorance.

Again, we are talking from our viewpoints, which in doubt has been shaped by the society we have been brought up in, or live in at the moment. We are judging him by the values we are accustomed to.

See in Saudi Arabia, if you hug a woman, you might lose your hand, if not your head. You might scream bloody rubbish, but that's the law. Of course, if ever you get caught smoking weed, you can say goodbye to your head. But somewhere else in the planet, it's taken as some sort of an achievement, or at best, scoffed at.

So it all differs. Value systems aren't same the world across.

Now, ignorance isn't an excuse I know. But the perpetrators for spreading or maintaing such ignorance isn't kids like Amir, but a pathetic spineless administration which just didn't do it's job in educating it's players. We just cannot expect kids like him to be born into the world knowing all there that is. They need to be told, educated, what is right and what is wrong.