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***Official*** Australia in Sri Lanka

Cricket_Champ

Cricket Spectator
Is there that much difference between Copes and alot of other countries bowlers though? Fair enough they seem to be able to push it quicker when needed but india/sri lanka come to mind as having quick bowlers who only reach the 130's. I imagine Copeland with training will add alittle bit of speed to sit in that range and keep his control.
What's the matter about his pace? Honestly, Glen McGrath only hovered around the 130's and even high 120's in the latter part of his career and it didn't effect his ability to still be the premier fast bowler in International Cricket. If Copeland can keep getting the ball to move around through the air and off the pitch there is no need for him to bowl any faster.
 

Burgey

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What's the matter about his pace? Honestly, Glen McGrath only hovered around the 130's and even high 120's in the latter part of his career and it didn't effect his ability to still be the premier fast bowler in International Cricket. If Copeland can keep getting the ball to move around through the air and off the pitch there is no need for him to bowl any faster.
True, but by the time McGrath's pace dropped to low 130s/ high 120s, he had about 300-400 test wickets worth of nous up his sleeve. Early doors he was fast enough. Just ask Peter Kirsten.

FWIW I agree with you though. There's nothing wrong with his pace, so long as he bowls well and takes wickets consistently at a decent SR, average and ER.

As for those saying Clarke isn't giving him long enough spells, I can understand that, but I can also see why he wants to rotate his bowlers on this surface. Moreover, I'm happier for him to give spells to a rookie which err on the side of too short, than too long.

Taylor and Border's handling of McGrath early on in his career is noteworthy. They didn't over bowl him either. Think Clarke has got it right more often than not with all his changes so far, tbh.
 
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Cricket_Champ

Cricket Spectator
True, but by the time McGrath's pace dropped to low 130s/ high 120s, he had about 300-400 test wickets worth of nous up his sleeve. Early doors he was fast enough. Just ask Peter Kirsten.

FWIW I agree with you though. There's nothing wrong with his pace, so long as he bowls well and takes wickets consistently at a decent SR, average and ER.

As for those saying Clarke isn't giving him long enough spells, I can understand that, but I can also see why he wants to rotate his bowlers on this surface. Moreover, I'm happier for him to give spells to a rookie which err on the side of too short, than too long.

Taylor and Border's handling of McGrath early on in his career is noteworthy. They didn't over bowl him either. Think Clarke has got it right more often than not with all his changes so far, tbh.
Still, McGrath fast fast. IIRC he could reach mid 140's at his fastest? Tbh, that's not fast at all by todays standards. I also don't know why people would want any bowler to bowl more than 7 overs in one hit tbh. Shorter and sharper spells are the way to go. Clarke has handled his bowlers rotations wonderfully IMO.
 

outbreak

First Class Debutant
What's the matter about his pace? Honestly, Glen McGrath only hovered around the 130's and even high 120's in the latter part of his career and it didn't effect his ability to still be the premier fast bowler in International Cricket. If Copeland can keep getting the ball to move around through the air and off the pitch there is no need for him to bowl any faster.
I'm in agreement with you, bowling smartly and consistently can take wickets just as much and out and out pace can. There's a place for both in cricket. My post was just in the direction of others who keep talking about how he bowls slow and the commentators keep bringing it up but never mention it when the Sri Lankans bowl around the same speed. IMO if he played for a different country besides Australia no one would really mention his pace.
 

Ruckus

International Captain
What's the matter about his pace? Honestly, Glen McGrath only hovered around the 130's and even high 120's in the latter part of his career and it didn't effect his ability to still be the premier fast bowler in International Cricket. If Copeland can keep getting the ball to move around through the air and off the pitch there is no need for him to bowl any faster.
Yeah he is already a solid bowler as it is, but if there is something he needs to improve on it isn't pace imo, it's developing a wider variety of deliveries. At the moment he probably bowls to much stuff where the batsman can be pretty confident in just shouldering their arms and letting the ball pass. He needs to try to develop something like this more imo (first wicket in the vid):

Glenn McGrath 5 wickets vs England 2005 Ashes - YouTube
 
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Top_Cat

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haha, picks out one of McG's most destructive bowling performances and says to Copeland "Bowl more like this."

No problem.
 

Cricket_Champ

Cricket Spectator
Yeah he is already a solid bowler as it is, but if there is something he needs to improve on it isn't pace imo, it's developing a wider variety of deliveries. At the moment he probably bowls to much stuff where the batsman can be pretty confident in just shouldering their arms and letting the ball pass. He needs to try to develop something like this more imo (first wicket in the vid):

Glenn McGrath 5 wickets vs England 2005 Ashes - YouTube
You do know that Copeland has only been bowling pace for like 5 years or something? He isn't like a McGrath or Lee who have been bowling pace all their lives. Obviously the more experience he gets and the more time he spends with high quality coaching staff the better bowler he will become. Tbh given his circumstances he's better than solid.
 

Ruckus

International Captain
haha, picks out one of McG's most destructive bowling performances and says to Copeland "Bowl more like this."

No problem.
Na, way to miss the point. It's the area the delivery is pitched I am talking about. Copeland bowls too much stuff angling away from the batsman.
 
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Ruckus

International Captain
You do know that Copeland has only been bowling pace for like 5 years or something? He isn't like a McGrath or Lee who have been bowling pace all their lives. Obviously the more experience he gets and the more time he spends with high quality coaching staff the better bowler he will become. Tbh given his circumstances he's better than solid.
I'm not having a go at the guy haha, I'm already a big fan. Doesn't mean there isn't still stuff he can improve on.
 

Top_Cat

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He doesn't have a lot of choice, tbh. Doesn't get anywhere near the seam movement of McG (so far) so, if he straightens, he'll get milked which is just about the worst thing for someone bowling meds (I mean, he's hardly going to hurry anyones' strokes....).

He'd have to get his leg-cutter going really well/consistently to justify coming in closer to the stumps, in my opinion. Right now, he's probably in the right area for a bowler of his type.
 
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Burgey

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Na, way to miss the point. It's the area the delivery is pitched I am talking about. Copeland bowls too much stuff angling away from the batsman.
Well, when you have a slope assisting you to bowl off cutters, it kind of helps, doesn't it?

McGrath was one of the best bowlers of all time. There's nothing wrong with aspiring to bowl like him, but that doesn't transmogrify into being able to do so, especially when the first wicket in that spell was McGrath's 400th. Copeland has, what, 4?
 

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