Repercussions

[Sanz]

Over-Reaction is a bit too much in this thread. This series loss was because of a combination of a lot of factors :-

1. England's super preparation and execution
2. India's lack of preparation
3. Indian players out of shape
4. England's Super preparation and execution

 

[Jacknife]

India did fantastically well to make it to number one but they never faced anything like the quality of cricket England have produced in this series, least of all in unfamiliar conditions with sub-standard preparation. In spite of everything I still think they're not really getting enough credit from some of the opposition fans.

I said the same thing during the Ashes, and at the start of this tour commented on how it would give us a benchmark to measure the extent to which England's victory down under was English brilliance rather than Australian incompetence. What's gone on in the first three tests could barely have answered that question more conclusively. If I was an Aussie fan I'd be feeling a lot better about the side's future prospects now than I did two months ago.

Completely agree but I'm not telling them.

 

[weeman27bob]

Over-reaction is a bit too much in this thread. This series loss was because of a combination of a lot of factors :-

1. England's super preparation and execution
2. India's lack of preparation
3. Indian players out of shape
4. England's super preparation and execution

AWTA really.

 

[BoyBrumby]

India did fantastically well to make it to number one but they never faced anything like the quality of cricket England have produced in this series, least of all in unfamiliar conditions with sub-standard preparation. In spite of everything I still think they're not really getting enough credit from some of the opposition fans.

I said the same thing during the Ashes, and at the start of this tour commented on how it would give us a benchmark to measure the extent to which England's victory down under was English brilliance rather than Australian incompetence. What's gone on in the first three tests could barely have answered that question more conclusively. If I was an Aussie fan I'd be feeling a lot better about the side's future prospects now than I did two months ago.

I dunno, tbh. As an Englishman I'm tickled pink, but as a cricket fan I'm mildly disappointed in India.

Yes, it is in alien conditions, but unfamiliar? Not buying it. Praveen, Ishant & Gambhir excepted I think all the first choice XI have played tests in Blighty before.

Venturing into the grounds of the bleedin' obvious as I am, India did win here four years ago. Different oppo, obvz, but I'm not minded to let the visitors totally off the hook.

My two cents is there's been a bit of laurel resting going on.

 

[Bun]

I dunno, tbh. As an Englishman I'm tickled pink, but as a cricket fan I'm mildly disappointed in India.

Yes, it is in alien conditions, but unfamiliar? Not buying it. Praveen, Ishant & Gambhir excepted I think all the first choice XI have played tests in Blighty before.

Venturing into the grounds of the bleedin' obvious as I am, India did win here four years ago. Different oppo, obvz, but I'm not minded to let the visitors totally off the hook.

My two cents is there's been a bit of laurel resting going on.

Agreed fully.

Too much overconfidence.

 

[smash84]

There is no shortage of class or ability in this Indian side, yeah quite a lot of things went wrong for us but overall it reeked off failing to plan properly.

I think there is a serious shortage of class and ability in the bowling line-up which finally just got exposed.

I can't see this attack doing well in a few other places as well if Zaheer is not fully fit.

 

[GIMH]

I agree with Nasser Hussain. India could have prepared better, been fitter, fielded better, played better. They'd still have lost, though.

 

[Top_Cat]

Thoroughly predictable results, tbh. Truth is, India were never going to have the team to do well in England (can't think of any bowlers who should have been in the team ahead of the lot who were selected) so I don't think they should be too hard on themselves. The performance of Kumar the only surprise for me but then, I doubt he'll ever play in conditions as friendly to his style of bowling again.

Lack of prep for certain players and fitness overall the lowest-hanging fruit to pick but, really, I don't think they could have done much to prevent this. And, as BB said, because most of the first XI have played Tests in England previously, I doubt they were unaware of what's required to win in England nor how much they were up against it even with Sehwag and Zaheer in the side from the start.

 

[smash84]

Thoroughly predictable results, tbh. Truth is, India were never going to have the team to do well in England (can't think of any bowlers who should have been in the team ahead of the lot who were selected) so I don't think they should be too hard on themselves. The performance of Kumar the only surprise for me but then, I doubt he'll ever play in conditions as friendly to his style of bowling again.

Lack of prep for certain players and fitness overall the lowest-hanging fruit to pick but, really, I don't think they could have done much to prevent this. And, as BB said, because most of the first XI have played Tests in England previously, I doubt they were unaware of what's required to win in England nor how much they were up against it even with Sehwag and Zaheer in the side from the start.

agree with all of the above.

wrt the part in bold I must say that b/c of this I find Fletcher's excuses of the "I have never seen the ball swing so much" variety quite irritating.

 

[Flem274*]

If you have a ridiculous amount of batsmen averaging fifty and bowlers averaging in the low twenties in domestic cricket, which India certainly have, it's time to tighten up your domestic structure.

Playing several FC tour matches before a series works as well.

But half the problem is England are bonkers atm. We know Dravid, Tendulkar and Laxman are awesome batsmen, yet only one had a good series because England bowled so well.

 

[Xuhaib]

England bowled well but both Lax and Sachin batted poorly tbh Laxman got out to random leg side flicks thrice he had a start in all 3 knocks while Sachin has handled Dale Steyn swing in SA where he bowled better then any of the England seamer have bowled in this series, most of his dismissals were due to his poor footwork.

 

[centurymaker]

yeah besides 2 half-decent knocks each, both have failed quite badly.

the reason tendulkar's footwork was meessed up was because of anderson's off-cutters. he at times had taken the legstump guard to somewhat negate lbws but that had affected the rest of his game. he had no idea where his offstump was, so poked at deliveries etc...
yesterday he took the middle stump guard again like the 2nd test and that was working.. however, this does bring lbw back into play.

and laxman what can I say, he has this annoying tendency to get dismissed in rather soft manner. he possibly loses his concentration every once in a while during his innings. maybe he becomes a bit complacent after playing magical shots.

 

[Spark]

England bowled well but both Lax and Sachin batted poorly tbh Laxman got out to random leg side flicks thrice he had a start in all 3 knocks while Sachin has handled Dale Steyn swing in SA where he bowled better then any of the England seamer have bowled in this series, most of his dismissals were due to his poor footwork.

Disagreed tbh. Steyn bowled magnificent outswing spells, but that's the thing - outswing spells. Almost nothing came back in to try and get him bowled/LBW and that is the one thing England have done beautifully. Also there's been no respite for him from any of the four seamers, whereas in SA he had pressure release valves in the other half of the attack.

I'd say Broad's height has messed up his footwork the most, tbh, hasn't got forward to him (or Tremlett) properly at all.

 

[centurymaker]

Disagreed tbh. Steyn bowled magnificent outswing spells, but that's the thing - outswing spells. Almost nothing came back in to try and get him bowled/LBW and that is the one thing England have done beautifully. Also there's been no respite for him from any of the four seamers, whereas in SA he had pressure release valves in the other half of the attack.

I'd say Broad's height has messed up his footwork the most, tbh, hasn't got forward to him (or Tremlett) properly at all.

nah steyn does bowl the odd off-cutters tbh which are a bit quicker too compared to his outswingers... got both tendulkar and laxman in the 1st innings of that series like that iirc. however he doesn't really produce those sort of deliveries that much.

forgot to mention the height factor. yeah height was troubling him. Until yesterday he was barely getting forward to broad. that might have something to do with the sighscreens not being high enough making him unable to see the balls clearly.
this series he's been dismissed 3 times by broad and 2 times by anderson. if tremlett comes back he'll have to contend with 3 'tough' (for him) bowlers. broad (+ tremlett) mainly push him back and try to nick him off poking at deliveries, and anderson mainly tries to set him up for a lbw with an off-cutter/inswinger.

the thing that makes anderson's in-coming ball even more effective is that there is hardly any change in his action when he bowls it. this makes it a lot harder to pick it.

 

[Uppercut]

Venturing into the grounds of the bleedin' obvious as I am, India did win here four years ago.

Don't think that counts for ****, tbh. This is the difference between playing a side that's just been violently whipped by the Aussies and playing a side that's just violently whipped the Aussies. India luckboxed hard in that series too.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Don't think that counts for ****, tbh. This is the difference between playing a side that's just been violently whipped by the Aussies and playing a side that's just violently whipped the Aussies. India luckboxed hard in that series too.

Well you did say they were playing in unfamiliar conditions, I was suggesting that, for the majority of the side, they weren't as unfamiliar as all that. &, of the England virgins, Praveen has been unquestionably India's best bowler.

If you say India aren't good enough, then I agree, tipped England before the series, but I don't think India have given a good account of themselves at all and I don't think, flattering as it would be, it's entirely due to England's magnificence.

 

[Uppercut]

Certainly. I agree with what Nasser said- they could have prepared better, fielded better, bowled better and batted better. But they almost definitely still would have lost, because England are far better than them.

 

[centurymaker]

Disagreed tbh. Steyn bowled magnificent outswing spells, but that's the thing - outswing spells. Almost nothing came back in to try and get him bowled/LBW and that is the one thing England have done beautifully. Also there's been no respite for him from any of the four seamers, whereas in SA he had pressure release valves in the other half of the attack.

I'd say Broad's height has messed up his footwork the most, tbh, hasn't got forward to him (or Tremlett) properly at all.

actually i just remembered that morkel tested the guys with in-duckers at pace. plus he's pretty tall too

 

[Spark]

actually i just remembered that morkel tested the guys with in-duckers at pace.

He did. But a tad short for LBW/bowled. And plus he wasn't getting outswing mostly.

It's the outswing + incutter changeup which has done for Tendulkar this series.

 

[centurymaker]

Certainly. I agree with what Nasser said- they could have prepared better, fielded better, bowled better and batted better. But they almost definitely still would have lost, because England are far better than them.

it would've been alot closer if india had done their things right.124/8 would've been 150 all out/
260/4 would've been 380+

plus india wouldn't have given up so easily in the 1st and the 3rd test.

atm the scoreline would've been 2-1 or 1-1.

but since that didn't happen it's a massive 3-0 which feels more like a 5-0