where would england rank among the great sides of the past?

[CricAddict]

Here's Simon Wilde's top ten test teams. Perhaps England can beat 9 or 10....

Simon Wilde's top 10 Test teams - Times Online

Good read. Both the current Indian and English teams have a good case to be in that list at Nos 9/10.

 

[shivfan]

Very good read, that article....

I think this England side are also in with a shout at 9 or 10 too.

 

[wpdavid]

Not sure this current side is as good as the 03-05 side, it certainly has greater depth to it but the team which won the ashes in 05 was a very good side who beat a great Aussie team with a bit of luck along the way.

The current team probably hasn't peaked yet and may well improve anyway over time when we introduce Taylor into the batting side (nobody can yet tell) and with the bowlers still having a few years left in the tank and likely lads like Finn and Bresnan waiting in the wings we will be a top 3 side for a while.

Are we good enough to dominate like Australia did until recently? I don't think we are but time will tell on that one. Be fun finding out anyway if we do keep on winning matches.

I think that having Flintoff at the absolute peak of his powers gives the 2005 side the edge. Remove him, and I think that the current side may well be superior.

 

[weldone]

Well, currently they are at no. 3 according to the latest ICC ratings, behind India and South Africa.

If you compare them with the sides of the past, they will be at about no. 513 in the rankings, or whatever it is.

 

[smash84]

Ponting and Imran didn't just have "a side" tho, both were in charge of their nations for a considerable time & the XIs evolved.

.

awta. Imran's side evolved over a 10 year period while he was captain (other than his injury part). Waqar came into his side in 1989 but by then all of his major away series were done with in any case

 

[Furball]

I think that having Flintoff at the absolute peak of his powers gives the 2005 side the edge. Remove him, and I think that the current side may well be superior.

The current side IMO would absolutely destroy the 2005 side.

 

[Uppercut]

The current side IMO would absolutely destroy the 2005 side.

I think so too.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, I agree.

Trescothick/Strauss = Cook/Strauss
Vaughan < Trott
Pietersen 05 ?? Pietersen 11 (he's capable of more now than then but we'll see how he goes from here)
Bell 05 <<<<< Bell 11
Flintoff >>>>>>>>>> Morgan
G. Jones <<<<<<<<<<<< Prior
Giles <<<<<<<< Swann
Harmison <<< Tremlett
S. Jones = Anderson
Hoggard >> Broad

Lower-order batting: This side by a mile
Fielding: This one, although Freddie was a better slip by quite a bit more than any of the current side

 

[smash84]

The current side IMO would absolutely destroy the 2005 side.

Not really. Swann is a big plus here but Giles was decent in 2005. Other than that Harmison and Flintoff were superb in that series and in form those two I would prefer over Broad and Tremlett. Secondly while Jimmy Anderson might swing the new ball nicely (can't remember if he was in the squad back then) but then you have the reverse swing of Simon Jones from 2005 which I am pretty sure would be decisive. I reckon the 2005 side might edge it or at least would not get absolutely destroyed.

 

[GIMH]

Harmison wasn't awesome in the 2005 Test series. He had a couple of decent matches and was fairly innocuous after that; would take Tremlett over Harmison post-2004 without a second's hesitation.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah, I agree.

Trescothick/Strauss = Cook/Strauss
Vaughan < Trott
Pietersen 05 ?? Pietersen 11 (he's capable of more now than then but we'll see how he goes from here)
Bell 05 <<<<< Bell 11
Flintoff >>>>>>>>>> Morgan
G. Jones <<<<<<<<<<<< Prior
Giles <<<<<<<< Swann
Harmison <<< Tremlett
S. Jones = Anderson
Hoggard >> Broad

Lower-order batting: This side by a mile
Fielding: This one, although Freddie was a better slip by quite a bit more than any of the current side

I think that's fair, although I'd increase the distance between Vaughan and Trott.

The '05 side was carried a bit by their awesome pace attack. The batting was decent, the fielding was a bit clumsy and the spinner was a prank-cricketer. This side by comparison doesn't really have a weakness.

 

[wpdavid]

I think that's fair, although I'd increase the distance between Vaughan and Trott.

The '05 side was carried a bit by their awesome pace attack. The batting was decent, the fielding was a bit clumsy and the spinner was a prank-cricketer. This side by comparison doesn't really have a weakness.

My only question is how much difference does Flintoff make to the calculation? I suspect we're already forgetting just how immense he was in 2005. Looking at the other 10 players, I can see that 2011 > 2005. But, without him, we'd have lost heavily in 2005 and we wouldn't even be having the discussion. Given how major a contribution he made against the 2005 Aus side, it's a fair guess that he'd do the same or more against this England side.

 

[smash84]

I think that's fair, although I'd increase the distance between Vaughan and Trott.

The '05 side was carried a bit by their awesome pace attack. The batting was decent, the fielding was a bit clumsy and the spinner was a prank-cricketer. This side by comparison doesn't really have a weakness.

exactly, so you can't really say that this side would utterly destroy the 05 side

 

[John Blaze]

Yeah, I agree.

Trescothick/Strauss = Cook/Strauss
Vaughan < Trott
Pietersen 05 ?? Pietersen 11 (he's capable of more now than then but we'll see how he goes from here)
Bell 05 <<<<< Bell 11
Flintoff >>>>>>>>>> Morgan
G. Jones <<<<<<<<<<<< Prior
Giles <<<<<<<< Swann
Harmison <<< Tremlett
S. Jones = Anderson
Hoggard >> Broad

Lower-order batting: This side by a mile
Fielding: This one, although Freddie was a better slip by quite a bit more than any of the current side

Anderson now is better than Simon Jones surely

 

[Furball]

Not really. Swann is a big plus here but Giles was decent in 2005. Other than that Harmison and Flintoff were superb in that series and in form those two I would prefer over Broad and Tremlett. Secondly while Jimmy Anderson might swing the new ball nicely (can't remember if he was in the squad back then) but then you have the reverse swing of Simon Jones from 2005 which I am pretty sure would be decisive. I reckon the 2005 side might edge it or at least would not get absolutely destroyed.

Harmison wasn't superb in 2005. Had an excellent Test at Lord's and contributed pretty much **** all for the rest of the series.

The batting from 2005 is a huge weakness conpared to now. Vaughan IMO would get utterly owned by Anderson moving the ball away from him, and 2005 Bell was rubbish as well.

 

[GIMH]

Anderson now is better than Simon Jones surely

Jones's 05 Ashes was probably the best series I've seen an England bowler have, save maybe for Anderson's 10-11 Ashes, which was excellent in different ways.

Hard to say really. We never got to see what Jones could have become.

 

[Furball]

My only question is how much difference does Flintoff make to the calculation? I suspect we're already forgetting just how immense he was in 2005. Looking at the other 10 players, I can see that 2011 > 2005. But, without him, we'd have lost heavily in 2005 and we wouldn't even be having the discussion. Given how major a contribution he made against the 2005 Aus side, it's a fair guess that he'd do the same or more against this England side.

Flintoff had to contribute heavily because with Bell and Harmison we were a man down in both disciplines.

 

[Uppercut]

My only question is how much difference does Flintoff make to the calculation? I suspect we're already forgetting just how immense he was in 2005. Looking at the other 10 players, I can see that 2011 > 2005. But, without him, we'd have lost heavily in 2005 and we wouldn't even be having the discussion. Given how major a contribution he made against the 2005 Aus side, it's a fair guess that he'd do the same or more against this England side.

Mmm I think this attack would fancy their chances against his technique, to be honest. It really is quite a lot better than the '05 Australian attack once McGrath went down.

 

[GIMH]

He was pure *** though

Best performance by any player ever

I love him

Imagine if you stick him in that form into this team, in place of Morgan.

 

[smash84]

Jones's 05 Ashes was probably the best series I've seen an England bowler have, save maybe for Anderson's 10-11 Ashes, which was excellent in different ways.

Hard to say really. We never got to see what Jones could have become.

awta

Jones 05 was just plain outstanding. Was excellent at reverse swing tbh. The Aussie batsman really did not have too much of an answer to him