-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Why can't India produce great fast bowlers like Pakistan?
- Thread starter angad
- Start date
TumTum
Banned
I can't comment captaincy wise. But don't you reckon he's technically a far better player than Cook? Even in this Ashes series, Cook is still terrible to watch.
Howe_zat
Audio File
Hussey got a ton, Watson nearly did. The whole affair was pretty poor - Swann was restricted to five overs, Finn was leaking runs, the fielding that they had clearly been better at and had worked so hard to improve was lost on them. And Strauss generally ran out of ideas. It was a nightmare day for us by any stretch.
Spark
Global Moderator
You took a stack of wickets after lunch. Yes your morning was dire, yes Strauss proved himself to be a yet another uncreative captain (haven't we got a few of them running around), yes Finn was crap, but it could've been much much worse.
What made that day dreadful was losing five wickets in about an hour in the evening.
What made that day dreadful was losing five wickets in about an hour in the evening.
GreatestAnalyst
Cricket Spectator
Pace Academy does not focus on pace
To bowl at 145 kmh, you dont have to be hatta khatta, take mohammad zahid for example, he was very lean and bowled a yard faster than akhtar and waqar. Pakistam produced the greatest talent of fast bowling because the bowlers were never asked to cut down their pace for line and length. Instead they were taught the art of swing, reverse swing, yorkers, bouncers, slow balls, mental toughness and to never drop shoulders even in the face of defeat. The same cannot be said of the current generation, but if you look at the matched of the mid to late 1980s to the 90s, you will see that the greates pakistani fast bowling emerged in that era like Waqar, Wasim, Shoaib. Listen to Waqar in any of his interviews and he will tell you that he was never asked to cut down his pace, on the contrary he was asked to bowl faster and he was taught the art of wicket taking by Imran Khan. Is it any surprise that out of nowhere comes a bowler like Waqar and takes 90 wickets in one year playing for Surrey county, and all the wickets were clean bowled, lbw, at 90 mph, yorkers, bouncers and extreme reverse swing.
Before anyone assumes that reverse swing is done by ball tampering, please go talk to any physics professor and hr/she would tell you that the reverse swing happens when a ball travels at least at 70mph with the seam facing a direction and most importantly, the ball needs to be smoother shinier on only one side. Look at any videos of Waqar and Wasiim and Imran and you will see that they would never hold the ball in their palms because it would dapmen the ball. They would hold by the tips of their fingers and they would take care of just one side of the ball, by shining it over and over again, leaving one side smoother shinier than the other.....the rest is pace, accuracy, skill, talent, and physics.
If India had to produce a fast bowler, then we should introduce in the pace academy system, that pace bowling is not an alternative to line and length bowling. They are mutually exclusive and both can co-exist successfully. Zaheer is a great example, who is a great bowler but not exceptionally fast but can swing the ball both ways.
South, West, East, or North - a fast bowler can from any street of India....it takes the eye of fast bowler to spot talent
I end with the question, WHERE HAVE THE TALENT SPOTTERS GONE?
To bowl at 145 kmh, you dont have to be hatta khatta, take mohammad zahid for example, he was very lean and bowled a yard faster than akhtar and waqar. Pakistam produced the greatest talent of fast bowling because the bowlers were never asked to cut down their pace for line and length. Instead they were taught the art of swing, reverse swing, yorkers, bouncers, slow balls, mental toughness and to never drop shoulders even in the face of defeat. The same cannot be said of the current generation, but if you look at the matched of the mid to late 1980s to the 90s, you will see that the greates pakistani fast bowling emerged in that era like Waqar, Wasim, Shoaib. Listen to Waqar in any of his interviews and he will tell you that he was never asked to cut down his pace, on the contrary he was asked to bowl faster and he was taught the art of wicket taking by Imran Khan. Is it any surprise that out of nowhere comes a bowler like Waqar and takes 90 wickets in one year playing for Surrey county, and all the wickets were clean bowled, lbw, at 90 mph, yorkers, bouncers and extreme reverse swing.
Before anyone assumes that reverse swing is done by ball tampering, please go talk to any physics professor and hr/she would tell you that the reverse swing happens when a ball travels at least at 70mph with the seam facing a direction and most importantly, the ball needs to be smoother shinier on only one side. Look at any videos of Waqar and Wasiim and Imran and you will see that they would never hold the ball in their palms because it would dapmen the ball. They would hold by the tips of their fingers and they would take care of just one side of the ball, by shining it over and over again, leaving one side smoother shinier than the other.....the rest is pace, accuracy, skill, talent, and physics.
If India had to produce a fast bowler, then we should introduce in the pace academy system, that pace bowling is not an alternative to line and length bowling. They are mutually exclusive and both can co-exist successfully. Zaheer is a great example, who is a great bowler but not exceptionally fast but can swing the ball both ways.
South, West, East, or North - a fast bowler can from any street of India....it takes the eye of fast bowler to spot talent
I end with the question, WHERE HAVE THE TALENT SPOTTERS GONE?
Furball
Evil Scotsman
I think you're being naive if you don't think ball tampering had a role to play in the Pakistani bowlers bowling the way the did.
Before anyone jumps on me for that post, provided you're not using foreign objects on the ball such as bottle tops, I don't actually have a problem with ball tampering.
Before anyone jumps on me for that post, provided you're not using foreign objects on the ball such as bottle tops, I don't actually have a problem with ball tampering.
smash84
The Tiger King
It depends on what your definition of ball tampering is tbh. If you think that putting spit and sweat on the ball is also ball tampering then yes.
FTR it wasn't always that bottle tops were being used to swing the ball.
Xuhaib
International Coach
yeah ofcourse it was ball tampering by Wasim,Waqar and Imran but when Simon Jones and Flintoff got it reversing by the 10th over during Ashes 05 it was their skills and Troy Cooley's hardwork.
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
+1
yeah ofcourse it was ball tampering by wasim,waqar and imran but when simon jones and flintoff got it reversing by the 10th over during ashes 05 it was their skills and troy cooley's hardwork.
Jacknife
International Captain
10th over, oh really.
yeah ofcourse it was ball tampering by Wasim,Waqar and Imran but when Simon Jones and Flintoff got it reversing by the 10th over during Ashes 05 it was their skills and Troy Cooley's hardwork.
and I thought eveyone knew by now, it was down to Murray Mints.
Last edited:
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
Bun
Banned
plus 3.
yeah ofcourse it was ball tampering by Wasim,Waqar and Imran but when Simon Jones and Flintoff got it reversing by the 10th over during Ashes 05 it was their skills and Troy Cooley's hardwork.
Burgey
Request Your Custom Title Now!
****ing oath it was. The ******** nature of that England attack post-2005 would indicate just that.10th over, oh really.
Burgey
Request Your Custom Title Now!
It doesn't matter whether we have a problem with it, it's in the Rules that you can't do it.
Jacknife
International Captain
****ing oath it was what?
As for the second sentence, the main guy for reverse swing, was Simon Jones, he didn't play again after 2005, the other was Flintoff, who continued when conditions where right inbetween injuries to get reverse swing, so how would it indicate that?
Last edited:
Burgey
Request Your Custom Title Now!
Caused by nefarious ball tampering.
With respect
To the topic of the thread, vegetarianism IMO.
