*Official* English Football Season 2010-11

[Furball]

It might be an appropriate time to ask people for an England XI from their time watching the game.

 

[grecian]

It might be an appropriate time to ask people for an England XI from their time watching the game.

Well, mine wouldn't involve Scholes, as good as he was, so it would be a bit pointless.

 

[wpdavid]

It might be an appropriate time to ask people for an England XI from their time watching the game.

OK - if only to ponder why we struggle to produce left sided mid-fielders and right backs.

Banks
Anderson
Walker
Moore
Cole
Beckham
Gascoigne
Robson
Barnes
Lineker
Beardsley

A few random thoughts. As I first watched the side in the 1970 WC, Banks is there as an article of faith, although I don't really know whether he was better than Shilton. Viv Anderson is hardly an ATG, but he's preferable to Neal, Stevens and all the other no-hopers who've played at right back for us, unless I've fogotten someone. Left back, oddly enough, is far tricker, with Pearce and Sansom unlucky to miss out. Moore's an automatic pick. Alongside him, Walker isn't an old-fashioned centre-half, but he's far quicker than guys like Butcher, Watson & Campbell. Beckham's probably a shoe-in if we're playing 4-4-2. Gazza was briefly streets ahead of any English midfielder I've seen, although Hoddle deserves a mention, as does Scholes. I'll probably get slaughtered for playing John Barnes, but I'm struggling to think of anyone else who's done a thing on the left for us. Lineker's record in WCs means he has to play. So Beardsley plays as well, although I was never totally sold on him: he & Lineker were unquestionably our finest pairing up front during my time. Owen's too similar to Lineker. Rooney's done naff all at his two WCs, although he may eventually get in as a superior version of Beardsley. Perhaps Keegan's unlucky to miss out.

 

[grecian]

OK - if only to ponder why we struggle to produce left sided mid-fielders and right backs.

Banks
Anderson
Walker
Moore
Cole
Beckham
Gascoigne
Robson
Barnes
Lineker
Beardsley

A few random thoughts. As I first watched the side in the 1970 WC, Banks is there as an article of faith, although I don't really know whether he was better than Shilton. Viv Anderson is hardly an ATG, but he's preferable to Neal, Stevens and all the other no-hopers who've played at right back for us, unless I've fogotten someone. Left back, oddly enough, is far tricker, with Pearce and Sansom unlucky to miss out. Moore's an automatic pick. Alongside him, Walker isn't an old-fashioned centre-half, but he's far quicker than guys like Butcher, Watson & Campbell. Beckham's probably a shoe-in if we're playing 4-4-2. Gazza was briefly streets ahead of any English midfielder I've seen, although Hoddle deserves a mention, as does Scholes. I'll probably get slaughtered for playing John Barnes, but I'm struggling to think of anyone else who's done a thing on the left for us. Lineker's record in WCs means he has to play. So Beardsley plays as well, although I was never totally sold on him: he & Lineker were unquestionably our finest pairing up front during my time. Owen's too similar to Lineker. Rooney's done naff all at his two WCs, although he may eventually get in as a superior version of Beardsley. Perhaps Keegan's unlucky to miss out.

Barnes, WFT, he was awful for England, Waddle for me, was immense in '90, Taylor disgrace to leave him out after that.

I can't remember Banks or Moore, so;

Clemence
Mills
Pearce
Ferdinand
Butcher
Beckham
Gazza
Robson
Waddle
Lineker
Shearer

I think Shearer and Lineker would of worked well, and I'm talking the Shearer before his cruciate, when he was world-class, not the slightly lumbering version after, even though he was alright. Rooney, may well work his way in there eventually, Scholes, Coppell, Hoddle, Cashley, Owen and Beardo all good shouts at their bests.

 

[Uppercut]

Mmm. Lots of room for controversy in there already. I definitely didn't expect to see a team with Ferdinand but no Neville.

 

[wpdavid]

Mmm. Lots of room for controversy in there already. I definitely didn't expect to see a team with Ferdinand but no Neville.

I'd forgotten Neville tbh. One of the few exceptions to the 'all England right backs are crap' rule.

 

[wpdavid]

Barnes, WFT, he was awful for England, Waddle for me, was immense in '90, Taylor disgrace to leave him out after that.

I can't remember Banks or Moore, so;

Clemence
Mills
Pearce
Ferdinand
Butcher
Beckham
Gazza
Robson
Waddle
Lineker
Shearer

I think Shearer and Lineker would of worked well, and I'm talking the Shearer before his cruciate, when he was world-class, not the slightly lumbering version after, even though he was alright. Rooney, may well work his way in there eventually, Scholes, Coppell, Hoddle, Cashley, Owen and Beardo all good shouts at their bests.

I wondered about Shearer - eventually decided that he was at his best with Sheringham along side him in a similar role to Beardsley a few years earlier, so he missed out. Not a bad shout though. I couldn't really push a strong case either way. Pleased to see Butcher get a mention, even if I didn't pick him. Ditto Pearce. Not convinced about Mills - he got by in Greenwood's hugely defensive 1982 formation, but I think he'd have been found wanting in any other situation. Clemence has great domestic stats, but so would Norman Wisdom playing in that Liverpool side. Barnes? He did more than people give him credit for, but Waddle's OK too. Agreed with Ferdinand if we're talking post-Moore.

 

[grecian]

Mmm. Lots of room for controversy in there already. I definitely didn't expect to see a team with Ferdinand but no Neville.

I've always rated Rio, highly, he has decent control of the ball, which is rare amongst our C-Bs, as WPDavid alludes, after Moore he's possibly the only with any composure on the ball.

You could both be right on Neville for Mills, but he always seemed a solid defender to me. I don't rate Gary as a defender much, not against top-class oppo, he was very good in partnership with Becks though.

Oh and I picked Clem mainly because I never rated Seaman or Shilton. Made ridiculous mistakes in key matches, which is what I don't want in a 'keeper.

I don't like GKs though.

 

[wpdavid]

I've always rated Rio, highly, he has decent control of the ball, which is rare amongst our C-Bs, as WPDavid alludes, after Moore he's possibly the only with any composure on the ball.

You could both be right on Neville for Mills, but he always seemed a solid defender to me. I don't rate Gary as a defender much, not against top-class oppo, he was very good in partnership with Becks though.

Oh and I picked Clem mainly because I never rated Seaman or Shilton. Made ridiculous mistakes in key matches, which is what I don't want in a 'keeper.

I don't like GKs though.

Totally agree with you about Seaman. Regarding Shilton, the only howler I remember was Domarski's goal for Poland in 1973. When else did you have in mind? Clemence was even more culpable for Dalglish's winner in 1977, albeit not in a WC or EC game.

Going back to Waddle, my other thought was that he played most of his England games on the right. Could easily be my memory playing tricks on me though.

 

[grecian]

Totally agree with you about Seaman. Regarding Shilton, the only howler I remember was Domarski's goal for Poland in 1973. When else did you have in mind? Clemence was even more culpable for Dalglish's winner in 1977, albeit not in a WC or EC game.

Going back to Waddle, my other thought was that he played most of his England games on the right. Could easily be my memory playing tricks on me though.

I still blame Shilts for cheats goal, I know it's harsh, but he flapped at it, it was a joke, handball or not. Oh and don't get how he got beaten by the Brehme goal, got a deflection, but was just under the bar, as bad as Seamans Ronaldinho moment, and it wouldn't of hurt if he could've saved a pen. Meh about a mistake against the Jocks, only about 5 million idjits care about that.

Your right about Waddle, but he was truly two-footed, and as you said earlier we have a dearth of left-footed players.

 

[GIMH]

It might be an appropriate time to ask people for an England XI from their time watching the game.

91-present

Seaman

Neville
Adams
Ferdinand
Pearce

Beckham
Gascoigne
Ince
Joe Cole

Rooney
Shearer

Not given much thought, would probably make a few changes if I was sat at home.

Joe Cole the dodgiest pick but I couldn't think of anyone better for the left.

Rooney over Sheringham a stiff one but Rooney gets in purely on the basis that I think Euro 04 is the best I've ever seen an England player play.

Pearce's best days arguably behind him in my time, Cashley an option. As much of a **** as he is I think he's probably been the most consistent England player in the past decade.

 

[Cevno]

It is also strange how Scholes is regarded so highly in the continent burnt not that highly among English fans .Maybe it is down to him being a Manchester United player or not being a typical English style player hustle buslte.

Some quotes about him -

“Paul Scholes would have been one of my first choices for putting together a great team - that goes to show how highly I have always rated him. He would have been one of the first players I’d have bought, given the chance”

Marcello Lippi

* I tell anyone who asks me - Scholes is the best English player.
o Laurent Blanc.

* I'm not the best, Paul Scholes is.
o Edgar Davids.

* An all-round midfielder who possesses quality and character in abundance.
o Italian World Cup-winning manager Marcello Lippi.

Thierry Henry when asked about the best player in the premiership -

"Without any doubt it has to be Paul Scholes, Man United's midfielder.

"He knows how to do everything, and he is the one who directs the way his team plays. "On top of that, he has indestructible mental strength, and he is a genuine competitor."


Pep Guardiola in 2007: "Out of everyone at Manchester United, I would pick out Scholes - he is the best midfielder of his generation, I would have loved to have played alongside him."

Jose Mourinho : “Scholes? Fantastic! Why isn’t he playing for England? It is crazy. Only in England. Scholes is a great, great player. So experienced and still, for me, one of the best in the world in midfield. Manchester United are lucky to have him.”

Cesc Fabregas : "He is the one whose level I aspire to. He is the best player in the Premier League."

Zinedine Zidane : "My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder."

Zinedine Zidane : "Scholes is undoubtedly the best midfielder of his generation."

Peter Schmeichel : "People say he is a great player, but you have to define what a great player is, For me, it is a player who has a bottom level that means his worst performance is not noticed.If he is having a bad game, a team-mate might feel Paul Scholes is not quite on his game, but a spectator wouldn't notice. Scholes, of all the players I have played with, has the highest bottom level. His reading of the game is unsurpassed.He has an eye for a pass, for what the play or the game needs at that precise moment, that I have never seen anyone else have. He controls and distributes the play and the game better than anyone I have ever seen."

Laurent Blanc : "Scholes is the best English player. Intelligence, technique, strength... all the attributes are there. At Manchester United I saw what he could do on the training field. Phew!"

David Beckham said that, among his teammates at Real Madrid, which included Zinedine Zidane, Raúl, Ronaldo, Luís Figo and Roberto Carlos, Scholes was the most admired opponent : "He's always one of those people others talk about. Even playing at Real Madrid, the players always say to me 'what's he like'? They respect him as a footballer, and to have that respect from some of those players is great."

Kevin Keegan : "What United have got that Chelsea haven't is Paul Scholes. I think he is different to anything else in English football."

Gary Neville : "I wouldn't swap Paul Scholes for anybody. He is quite simply the most complete footballer I have ever played with. He is the best."

Sir Bobby Charlton : "I am sorry for England because they don't have any player like him. You can talk about others but there is no one else like him. He is the best technical player England has without any question."

Sam Allardyce : "There is not a better midfield player in the world."

Edgar Davids : "Everyone of us should emulate him. We can all learn from Paul Scholes."

Brian Kidd : "Paul Scholes had the best football brain I'd ever seen in a kid. Let's face it. Paul Scholes is in a class of its own"

Sir Alex Ferguson : "Very few players can do that, but Scholes is one of them - and I knew he was one of them. That's why, without question, I think Paul Scholes is the best player in England. He's got the best skills, the best brain. No one can match him."

Eidur Gudjohnsen : "I'm more an admirer of Paul Scholes than I am of Ronaldo. Ronaldo is a fantastic player, but he has 10 other great players around him every week...Scholes is one of the most complete footballers I've ever seen. His one-touch play is phenomenal. Whenever I have played against him, I never felt I could get close to him."

Alan Shearer : "If you ask footballers to pick out the player they most admire, so many of them will pick Paul Scholes. He can tackle, and his passing and shooting is of the highest level. He’s the most consistent and naturally gifted player we’ve had for a long, long time."

Patrick Vieira : "The player in the Premiership I admire most? Easy - Scholes."

Xavi from Barclona on Scholes: ‘In the last 15 to 20 years the best central midfielder that I have seen — the most complete — is Scholes. I have spoken with Xabi Alonso about this many times. Scholes is a spectacular player who has everything.

‘He can play the final pass, he can score, he is strong, he never gets knocked off the ball and he doesn’t give possession away. If he had been Spanish then maybe he would have been valued more.’

Zinedine Zidane again - “It’s only natural to want to select your best players and there is no doubt for me that Paul Scholes is still in a class of his own,”

“He’s almost untouchable in what he does. I never tire of watching him play. You rarely come across the complete footballer, but Scholes is as close to it as you can get.

“One of my regrets is that the opportunity to play alongside him never presented itself during my career.”

“He was an extremely tough opponent to play against. You didn’t get any time on the ball when he was around. He would close you down and make your life terribly uncomfortable.
“He is the type of player you want on your side, not in opposition because he could do so much damage.

“He is very gifted. He makes the game look easy because he’s so much natural ability.”

Pep Guardiola on Scholes Again recently before the CL Final -

"Out of everyone at Manchester United, I would pick out Scholes – he is the best midfielder of his generation,"
"I would have loved to have played alongside him."
"He is someone i would love to Sign for Barcelona still"

And it goes on and on.

I agree with what Xavi says .The Spanish would have indeed valued him more.
England teams should have been built around him to be honest. But instead at one time before he retired he was shifted to left midfield to accomodate Frank Lampard. What a Joke!!!.

 

[cpr]

Talking of classic England, ITV4 showing some old Utd v Barca games, reminding me how much a wasted talent Lee Sharpe was. Just showed his drag back goal in '94. Could've been the answer to England's left, if it wasnt for injuries and Ryan Giggs (in fairness, Giggs tended to get shifted right or inside a bit to make room for him)

 

[wpdavid]

It is also strange how Scholes is regarded so highly in the continent burnt not that highly among English fans .Maybe it is down to him being a Manchester United player or not being a typical English style player hustle buslte.

I agree with what Xavi says .The Spanish would have indeed valued him more.
England teams should have been built around him to be honest. But instead at one time before he retired he was shifted to left midfield to accomodate Frank Lampard. What a Joke!!!.

I think he is highly rated by England fan who know what they're talking about. In the context of this thread, he's basically competing with Gazza for the same position, which was always going to be tough. Of course, we're all basing our choices on the really brief period of time when Gazza was a serious force to be reckoned with, which may indeed be unfair on Scholes, who was excellent for much longer.

100% agree with your comment about how he was messed around to accommodate Lampard & Gerrard. No wonder he retired so early from the international scene, and tbh we never adequately replaced him.

 

[wpdavid]

91-present

Seaman

Neville
Adams
Ferdinand
Pearce

Beckham
Gascoigne
Ince
Joe Cole

Rooney
Shearer

Not given much thought, would probably make a few changes if I was sat at home.

Joe Cole the dodgiest pick but I couldn't think of anyone better for the left.

Rooney over Sheringham a stiff one but Rooney gets in purely on the basis that I think Euro 04 is the best I've ever seen an England player play.

Pearce's best days arguably behind him in my time, Cashley an option. As much of a **** as he is I think he's probably been the most consistent England player in the past decade.

Maybe Anderton on the left based on Euro 1996?

And fair comment on Rooney in Euro 2004. Thinking about it, that could arguably get him a place ahead of Beardsley in my side.

 

[grecian]

I think he is highly rated by England fan who know what they're talking about. In the context of this thread, he's basically competing with Gazza for the same position, which was always going to be tough. Of course, we're all basing our choices on the really brief period of time when Gazza was a serious force to be reckoned with, which may indeed be unfair on Scholes, who was excellent for much longer.

100% agree with your comment about how he was messed around to accommodate Lampard & Gerrard. No wonder he retired so early from the international scene, and tbh we never adequately replaced him.

Yeah, Scholes could well be in if it wasn't for Gazza circa 89-91, was the best English plasyer I've seen by a mile. Mind you Hoddle wasn't bad either, most of us would agree with all those quotes, he was better then Lampard or Gerrard. So was our best player in that position for many years.

 

[Uppercut]

I think Scholes is really highly rated in England too, you really don't hear many fans or journos expressing doubts over his class.

I guess he's just out of mind for the most part. There's never any narrative involved outside of the football, you don't read stuff like "Scholes silences critics" or "Scholes shows his potential suitors what he can do". He just never comes to mind when we're discussing great players, because unless you're actually watching him play you kinda forget he exists a little bit.

 

[Cevno]

He is pretty highly rated among the fans who know their stuff But Generally for some reason is not rated as highly as he should be or those quotes show his fellow peers all across the world rated him. Some hailing him as the best midfielder of the generation or the best they have ever played against them. And these are greats who have watched and played with or against almost all the other greats of the time.

He was never one to be fully hyped by the English press like a Rooney, Lampard or Gerrard so most of his reputation was carved purely by his own abilities and most importantly by his peers and coaches.

This really infuriates me because it brings out the casual fans whose opinions have absolutely no background in wanting to interpret the game properly and bull**** misconceptions arise.

For me Scholes was and will always be bigger than life. One of those footballers and personalities that will stands the test of time and changed the way I watch and play the game.

He was the most complete midfielder of his generation do doubt for me.

 

[Jarquis]

Complete? The bloke's never been able to tackle ffs.

 

[Cevno]

He never did the diving tackle well ,but was pretty feisty and knew when he had to ,how to win the ball. As Zidane put it amongst other things he said in the above quote-

"You rarely come across the complete footballer, but Scholes is as close to it as you can get."

"He was an extremely tough opponent to play against. You didn’t get any time on the ball when he was around. He would close you down and make your life terribly uncomfortable."

Still that was really the only weakness to his repetoire.